Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 09/08/1998 - 12:31 Forums: LML Archive From: <N295VV [at] aol.com> Subject: Re: heater, IV Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:31:53 EDT To: <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> From: n295vv [at] aol.com well, the plot thickens. you will recall my comment last week-i was flying to the homecoming, and the heater flapper valve was letting hot air into the cockpit--lots of hot air? i have an early IV. there are two tubes welded on the back of the turbo intercoolers. they are there to bleed very hot compressed air from the intercoolers and provide the hot air to heat the cockpit, hopefully during cold weather. this system has a flapper valve actuated by a push-pull cable to control flow. i have noticed several things about it over a period of time: 1) at less than 31" it doesnt heat at all in the winter. (well, duh, the engine is actually sucking air, not producing a higher than ambient pressure which can be bled to the cabin--this has somehow escaped the attention of the folks at the factory-- no one at the factory could understand this--apparently they never have to use the heater in oregon. 2) it leaks hot air like crazy at all times at 31" plus-summer or winter 3) the leakage with the valve closed drops MP and reduces top KIA by 10 Kts--i dont even want to guess what the drops are when it is fully open. 4) since at less than 31" it doesnt blow hot air, i assume it is sucking unfiltered cockpit air into the turbos After talking about this problem with the factory, i have gleaned the following information--the leaking flapper valve can be solved by replacing it with a new tubular assembly for $400. well, leave the leaking valve inline, and add this to it. ok. the minus 31" problem? Engineer--"well, we have never heard of this, are you sure that this is happening?" "well, yes, i am--do you want to talk to my wife?" "well, you could just connect it to a heat muff like we are using on the ES." "fine, i want to buy a heat muff." "we dont sell heat muffs" "where can i buy a heat muff?" "i dont know." and on it went. i finally decided i am going to weld up my own damn heat muff and disconnect the plumbing from the intercoolers. i dont have the foggiest idea of what heat system they are supplying with the current kits--maybe it is still the system i have--i saw an engine there with the tubes coming off the intercoolers. if so, a lot of people are freezing their hind ends off in winter. am i missing something here? am i the only IV pilot with the turbo bleed system? do you other guys have exhaust crossover pipe heat muffs? if so, where did they come from? most importantly--have my wife and i got alzheimer's, and only imagine that the system produces no heat at less than 31"? please, please email me if this is happening to you also--i will cancel my doctor appointment if i find i am not the only one. and, oh, by the way, the homecoming was wonderful. lots of good food, good people, great looking planes, and wonderful weather. david jones pecatonica, illinois n295 v v @ aol.com Post a Reply heater, IV Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 09/09/1998 - 08:12 From: <N295VV [at] aol.com> Subject: Re: heater, IV Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 04:12:23 EDT To: <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> From: n295vv [at] aol.com More on the heater. Today I removed the old flapper-valve heater system and prepared to install the $400 replacement kit. The new kit is well-designed. It seems to have been prepared with much thought. In installing it, you simply remove all pieces of the old system, and slip the new axial valve through the firewall in place of the old flapper valve. Lancair has provided lots of scat tubing and some very nice flow diverter valves for the front and back seats-something that was lacking in the earlier assembly of the system. The axial valve is much improved over the old flapper valve, and it looks like it will eliminate bleed to the cabin in the summer. Whomever designed it deserves much credit. In the instruction sheet there is some mention of heat muff vs. non-heat muff engines. Obviously I have the latter. Since I am not a fan of the turbo sonic bleed because it robs the engine of MP, I am going to remove this, and attempt to bleed hot air from the crossover tube. I think it is possible to grind a hole on top of the crossover tube baffle (a nasty job, since it is behind the engine and in front of the firewall) , and weld up a nice saddle assembly that will fit over the hole and bolt securely onto the crossover tube. Before I do this, I would like to know if anyone out there has the heat muff type heater, and if so, do you get good airflow into the cockpit with it? Since I still have the old flapper valve and its push-pull cable is still installed, I might consider leaving the sonic system installed, and use the flapper valve to switch between it and the heat muff--the sonic system to be used only in an emergency if the heat muff isnt providing enough heat. (on second thought, I have decided not to do this--since the flapper valve leaks like heck, I would always be dumping MP overboard somewhere with a loss of power.) Your valued comments would be much appreciated. David Jones Pecatonica, Illinois reply heater, IV Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 09/10/1998 - 13:12 From: <N295VV [at] aol.com> Subject: Re:heater, IV Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:12:24 EDT To: <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> From: n295vv [at] aol.com Brent, your good analysis of the heater parameters has added more questions! Firstly, I do not have a pressurized IV, and during the last northern Illinois winter, my door seal was in need of repair, so the heater system didn't have to push against any high cabin ambient pressure. Next, when I mention not having any heat flow at <31" MP, I mean, I didn't have ANY heat flow--none, zippo! Elevated airspeed made no difference, but the minute I raised my MP above 31" , I got loads of heat and air flow. (and noise) Now the plot thickens--at Redmond, I saw a factory assembled engine on a stand, and the sonic nozzles were different--they weren't nozzles with 5/16" orifices like mine--they were just 1-1/4" tubes welded on in the same place. Did they change them because the 5/16" nozzles were restricting air flow at <31" MP, and they didn't tell anyone about the change? There is the possiblility that they changed from the thick nozzles to tubes because of noise--I can't even talk to to the tower when my heat is on at 31"+, the background noise isn't even cancelled out by my Bose headset-- must be 150 DB or more. Well, I am changing to the new axial control valve, but I don't expect to resolve the pressure vs flow question. Has anyone else out there experienced this problem? david jones reply Post a Reply You must have JavaScript enabled to use this form. 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heater, IV Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 09/09/1998 - 08:12 From: <N295VV [at] aol.com> Subject: Re: heater, IV Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 04:12:23 EDT To: <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> From: n295vv [at] aol.com More on the heater. Today I removed the old flapper-valve heater system and prepared to install the $400 replacement kit. The new kit is well-designed. It seems to have been prepared with much thought. In installing it, you simply remove all pieces of the old system, and slip the new axial valve through the firewall in place of the old flapper valve. Lancair has provided lots of scat tubing and some very nice flow diverter valves for the front and back seats-something that was lacking in the earlier assembly of the system. The axial valve is much improved over the old flapper valve, and it looks like it will eliminate bleed to the cabin in the summer. Whomever designed it deserves much credit. In the instruction sheet there is some mention of heat muff vs. non-heat muff engines. Obviously I have the latter. Since I am not a fan of the turbo sonic bleed because it robs the engine of MP, I am going to remove this, and attempt to bleed hot air from the crossover tube. I think it is possible to grind a hole on top of the crossover tube baffle (a nasty job, since it is behind the engine and in front of the firewall) , and weld up a nice saddle assembly that will fit over the hole and bolt securely onto the crossover tube. Before I do this, I would like to know if anyone out there has the heat muff type heater, and if so, do you get good airflow into the cockpit with it? Since I still have the old flapper valve and its push-pull cable is still installed, I might consider leaving the sonic system installed, and use the flapper valve to switch between it and the heat muff--the sonic system to be used only in an emergency if the heat muff isnt providing enough heat. (on second thought, I have decided not to do this--since the flapper valve leaks like heck, I would always be dumping MP overboard somewhere with a loss of power.) Your valued comments would be much appreciated. David Jones Pecatonica, Illinois reply
heater, IV Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 09/10/1998 - 13:12 From: <N295VV [at] aol.com> Subject: Re:heater, IV Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:12:24 EDT To: <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> From: n295vv [at] aol.com Brent, your good analysis of the heater parameters has added more questions! Firstly, I do not have a pressurized IV, and during the last northern Illinois winter, my door seal was in need of repair, so the heater system didn't have to push against any high cabin ambient pressure. Next, when I mention not having any heat flow at <31" MP, I mean, I didn't have ANY heat flow--none, zippo! Elevated airspeed made no difference, but the minute I raised my MP above 31" , I got loads of heat and air flow. (and noise) Now the plot thickens--at Redmond, I saw a factory assembled engine on a stand, and the sonic nozzles were different--they weren't nozzles with 5/16" orifices like mine--they were just 1-1/4" tubes welded on in the same place. Did they change them because the 5/16" nozzles were restricting air flow at <31" MP, and they didn't tell anyone about the change? There is the possiblility that they changed from the thick nozzles to tubes because of noise--I can't even talk to to the tower when my heat is on at 31"+, the background noise isn't even cancelled out by my Bose headset-- must be 150 DB or more. Well, I am changing to the new axial control valve, but I don't expect to resolve the pressure vs flow question. Has anyone else out there experienced this problem? david jones reply
heater, IV
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heater, IV
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