Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

Forums: 

From: Mark Sletten <mwsletten [at] gmail.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 07:35:13 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Gang,

First: Gascolators. There is a great deal of debate around the web on the benefits of a gascolator in fuel injected systems. What's the consensus among Lancairians? 

Second: I'm considering making my own engine compartment fuel lines. I plan to build them up from scratch including the fire sleeve (or not if the hose is sufficiently fire resistant). Anyone have a recommendation on the type of hose to use?

--Mark

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Danny <danny [at] n107sd.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 09:00:34 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

IMHO, if you don't know what type hose to use, maybe you shouldn't be making your own.



Sent from my iPhone.

Danny



> On Jul 23, 2014, at 7:35 AM, Mark Sletten <mwsletten [at] gmail.com> wrote:

>

> Gang,

>

> First: Gascolators. There is a great deal of debate around the web on the benefits of a gascolator in fuel injected systems. What's the consensus among Lancairians?

>

> Second: I'm considering making my own engine compartment fuel lines. I plan to build them up from scratch including the fire sleeve (or not if the hose is sufficiently fire resistant). Anyone have a recommendation on the type of hose to use?

>

> --Mark

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry [at] verizon.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:48:02 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

Danny,



Making up hoses of almost any type is not rocket science, but they are

expensive and they last a long time.  You would be happier if you selected

the best type from the beginning.  If you don't, you will either have to

live with your selection for longer than you would want, or you will have to

throw a bunch of dollar$ at it to make the change.



Bill



-----Original Message-----

From: Lancair Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net (mailto:)

] On Behalf Of Danny

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 8:01 AM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.



IMHO, if you don't know what type hose to use, maybe you shouldn't be making

your own.



Sent from my iPhone.

Danny



> On Jul 23, 2014, at 7:35 AM, Mark Sletten <mwsletten [at] gmail.com> wrote:

>

> Gang,

>

> First: Gascolators. There is a great deal of debate around the web on the

benefits of a gascolator in fuel injected systems. What's the consensus

among Lancairians?

>

> Second: I'm considering making my own engine compartment fuel lines. I

plan to build them up from scratch including the fire sleeve (or not if the

hose is sufficiently fire resistant). Anyone have a recommendation on the

type of hose to use?

>

> --Mark



--

For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Mark Sletten <mwsletten [at] gmail.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:13:40 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message
You're right; what was I thinking! Researching and seeking information from knowledgeable people to learn new skills is entirely overrated.

In fact, I should just scrap this wacky "experimental" idea and buy a certified plane...


:)

--Mark

________________________


From: Danny <danny [at] n107sd.com

>

IMHO, if you don't know what type hose to use, maybe you shouldn't be making your own.

Sent from my iPhone.
Danny

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Chris Zavatson <chris_zavatson [at] yahoo.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:01:00 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

Mark,

I made all my hoses: fuel, oil, hydraulic, brakes and maintenance equipment. The fuel lines are good old Aeroquip 303.  All were pressure testing using a home-made flow and pressure tester first described in the the LNN.  It is a cross where one leg attaches to a garden hose and has a valve, the second leg has a zerk fitting for pressurization, the third leg has a pressure gauge, and the fourth leg attaches to the hose under test.

Whatever hose you choose make sure it has a metal wire braid, either internal or external, so that fluid flow cannot build up a static charge.  I know of one aircraft fire traced back to a fuel line with no electrcal conductivity.



Chris Zavatson

N91CZ

360std

www.N91CZ.net



Sent from my spiffy iPhone



On Jul 23, 2014, at 4:35 AM, Mark Sletten <mwsletten [at] gmail.com> wrote:



> Gang,

>

> First: Gascolators. There is a great deal of debate around the web on the benefits of a gascolator in fuel injected systems. What's the consensus among Lancairians?

>

> Second: I'm considering making my own engine compartment fuel lines. I plan to build them up from scratch including the fire sleeve (or not if the hose is sufficiently fire resistant). Anyone have a recommendation on the type of hose to use?

>

> --Mark

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Jim Nordin <panelmaker [at] earthlink.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:41:20 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

If the plane is flying (U.S.) it is a certified
aircraft. Lancairs like ours, are certified in the experimental category. There
are a bunch of categories.

It appears some folks don’t know our
little lawn darts are certified (not in the “standard” category but)
in the experimental category.

Jim

www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/sp_awcert/experiment/

 

From: Lancair Mailing
List [lml [at] lancaironline.net]">mailto:lml [at] lancaironline.net] On Behalf
Of Mark Sletten

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014
10:14 AM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: Gascolators and
fuel lines.

You're right; what was I thinking! Researching and seeking information
from knowledgeable people to learn new skills is entirely overrated.

In fact, I should just scrap this wacky "experimental" idea
and buy a certified plane...

:)

 

--Mark

________________________

 

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: John Cooper <snopercod [at] comporium.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 07:34:45 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

My gascolator is from a Cessna, and includes a fine screen (see
below). It seems like that would be of benefit even if the sump
itself doesn't do anything for you. (This photo was taken before I
disassembled, cleaned, and re-assembled the gascolator with all new
soft goods.)



/files/LML/70430-02-01-R/part1.09090307.09090400 [at] comporium.net" sandbox="" width="585" height="877">



I used the Parker 919 Teflon lines with the stainless overbraid in
my fuel system. I had the local hose shop make them up for me. ( Cross Hose & Fittings  which
is a Parker
Store ). Although technically not required (I think), I
covered them all with firesleeve for thermal insulation purposes. My
engine is carbureted and the last section of fuel line is very close
to the exhaust stack. So I installed a stainless radiation shield in
that area. (The shiny convoluted tubing above is Thermo-Tec
insulation which protects the starter cable from heat damage.)



/files/LML/70430-02-01-R/part4.04020902.06010403 [at] comporium.net" sandbox="" width="877" height="585">


Image


Transformed_Lancair gascolator 004.JPG


Image


Transformed_Lancair radiation shield 001.JPG

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Mark Sletten <mwsletten [at] gmail.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 07:34:59 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message
Jim,

I stand (sit actually, since we're being so precise) corrected! I should've said non-experimental.

Thanks!

--Mark





On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Jim Nordin <panelmaker [at] earthlink.net

> wrote:

If the plane is flying (U.S.) it is a certified
aircraft. Lancairs like ours, are certified in the experimental category. There
are a bunch of categories.

It appears some folks don’t know our
little lawn darts are certified (not in the “standard” category but)
in the experimental category.

Jim

www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/sp_awcert/experiment/

 

From: Lancair Mailing
List [mailto:lml [at] lancaironline.net

] On Behalf
Of Mark Sletten

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014
10:14 AM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: Gascolators and
fuel lines.

You're right; what was I thinking! Researching and seeking information
from knowledgeable people to learn new skills is entirely overrated.

In fact, I should just scrap this wacky "experimental" idea
and buy a certified plane...

:)

 

--Mark

________________________

 

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Kevin Stallard <kevin [at] arilabs.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: [LML] Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 07:35:19 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

Hi Mark,



I like my gascolator.  I sloshed my wing tanks several times but the gascolator is still picking up bits and pieces from the build.  It has a nice filter between the pump and the engine and that gives me peace of mind.  I check it when I do an oil change and so far, there has always been something in the filter.  You're not saving much by skipping it...



Kevin



________________________________________

From: Lancair Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Sletten [mwsletten [at] gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 5:35 AM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Gascolators and fuel lines.



Gang,



First: Gascolators. There is a great deal of debate around the web on the benefits of a gascolator in fuel injected systems. What's the consensus among Lancairians?



Second: I'm considering making my own engine compartment fuel lines. I plan to build them up from scratch including the fire sleeve (or not if the hose is sufficiently fire resistant). Anyone have a recommendation on the type of hose to use?



--Mark

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Adam Molny <Adam [at] ValidationPartners.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:30:11 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message


Hi Mark –

 

Our planes are kept in a heated hangar so
there’s no opportunity for water in the system from rain or condensation.
Back when I was renting Cessnas and Pipers I did occasionally drain water from the
gascolator. Those planes were kept outside.

 

The lowest point in the Legacy fuel system
is the fuel selector valve, but it’s not designed to capture water or
sediment like a gascolator. Your notion that the fuel flows too fast for water
to settle out is difficult to prove or disprove. I always envisioned tiny globs
of water flowing out of the fuel tanks and coalescing into a large glob of
water in the gascolator. The real test would be to pour a cup of water into one
wing tank, run the engine at high power, and see where the water ends up (in the
gascolator, out the tailpipe, or back to the fuel tank). However, deliberately
adding water to the fuel system seems like a bad idea so I’m not going to
try it.

 

I think you are saying you want fuel
filtration but there’s no point in having water separation since a
gascolator won’t work. Can you be 100% certain that you will never get
water in your system? What about flying through rain with a loose fuel cap?
What about being parked outside at
Oshkosh
for a week? If you do get water in the system, where will it go? I hate to fall
back on the “It’s always been done that way” argument, but
gascolators exist for a reason.

 

For all the Legacy drivers out there: Have
any of you ever discovered water in the gascolator?

 

Good discussion!

-Adam Molny

From: Mark Sletten
[mwsletten [at] gmail.com]">mailto:mwsletten [at] gmail.com]

Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:15
AM

To: Adam Molny

Subject: Re: Gascolators and fuel
lines.

 

Adam,

 

I wasn't questioning the value of fuel filtration, just whether a
gascolator is the best choice. As I understand it, the gascolator provides a
means to filter the fuel and a low point to catch water that may have gotten
into the fuel system. There are several arguments against using one for the
Legacy.

  1. In the Legacy the gascolator is not the lowest
    point in the fuel delivery path from the tank to the engine, so water in
    the tank should not flow to the gascolator before turning on the pumps. (I
    believe the same is true of the RV. Has your wife ever drained any water
    from her gascolator?)

  2. Given the high fuel flow rate and recirculation
    of unused fuel to the tank, it's unlikely the gascolator will remove any
    water with the engine running.

  3. The gascolator in the engine compartment provides
    a large surface area to add heat to the fuel which can contribute to vapor
    lock. Lancair combats this with a heat shroud and blast air, adding weight
    and complexity.

  4. The gascolator requires numerous fittings and
    breaks in the fuel lines, adding to complexity, weight and the possibility
    of fuel leaks.

Since the gascolator appears to be rather useless at removing water,
it's primary function for the Legacy is filtration. With so many other
filtration options available, it seems illogical to put a gascolator in the
engine compartment.

 

What do you think?

 

--Mark

 

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 7:12 AM, Adam Molny <Adam [at] validationpartners.com

>
wrote:

Mark –

 

The gascolator provides a large reservoir for capturing water and
sediment. It also contains a fine screen with a fairly large area that acts the
final filtration element to keep junk out of your carburetor or injector(s).

 

Case in point: my wife’s RV6-A started showing small amounts
of debris when sumping the fuel tank drains and gascolator. We opened up the
gascolator and found a small amount of debris at the bottom of the bowl, and
the screen was about 5% blocked. There was no immediate danger, since the bowl
would have to completely fill with debris and the screen would have to be 100%
blocked in order to kill the engine. It turned out to be bits of fuel tank
sealant flaking off.

 

My point here is that the gascolator acts as a buffer and gives you
lots of warning and lots of time to head off any potential fuel contamination
problem.

 

What is the argument for omitting the gascolator on fuel injected
engines?

 

-Adam Molny

Legacy N181AM 255hrs

From: Mark Sletten [mailto:mwsletten [at] gmail.com

]

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014
7:35 AM

Subject: Gascolators and fuel
lines.

 

Gang,

 

First:
Gascolators. There is a great deal of debate around the web on the benefits of
a gascolator in fuel injected systems. What's the consensus among
Lancairians? 

 

Second: I'm
considering making my own engine compartment fuel lines. I plan to build them
up from scratch including the fire sleeve (or not if the hose is sufficiently
fire resistant). Anyone have a recommendation on the type of hose to use?

 

--Mark

 

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Robert R Pastusek <rpastusek [at] htii.com>
Subject: FW: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 18:15:06 +0000
To: lml [at] lancaironline.net <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

Adam,



My experience is the same as yours. I often found/drained water out of my old Cherokee tanks, and MANY rental airplanes as well. All were parked outside, and I think avgas came with a certain amount of “water added” in the old days…
L

 

I’ve never found any water in the gascolator of my IV-P, so the fuel doesn’t have/collect any water…or it’s going through
the engine and being vaporized--which I think unlikely. I know the gas caps are MUCH better than the old Cherokee “stoppers,” and I rarely park the Lancair outside these days.

 

Like you, I was meticulous in cleaning/keeping the fuel tanks/lines clean during fabrication and through flight test.
I still collected some small amounts of carbon fuzz, and a few bits of aluminum in the gascolator during testing, and at the first two condition inspections. Almost undetectable bits of something for the last three, not enough to even identify when poured
onto a piece of white paper… So the gascolator/filter is probably not serving a useful function today…but deleting it would be like throwing away the spare tire in my car, IMHO… I carry a few critical spare parts in my airplane for the same reason…

 

Bob

 

From: Lancair
Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net]">mailto:lml [at] lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Adam Molny

Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:30 PM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Hi Mark –

 

Our planes are kept in a heated hangar so there’s no opportunity for water in the system from rain or condensation. Back when I was renting Cessnas and Pipers I
did occasionally drain water from the gascolator. Those planes were kept outside.

 

The lowest point in the Legacy fuel system is the fuel selector valve, but it’s not designed to capture water or sediment like a gascolator. Your notion that the
fuel flows too fast for water to settle out is difficult to prove or disprove. I always envisioned tiny globs of water flowing out of the fuel tanks and coalescing into a large glob of water in the gascolator. The real test would be to pour a cup of water
into one wing tank, run the engine at high power, and see where the water ends up (in the gascolator, out the tailpipe, or back to the fuel tank). However, deliberately adding water to the fuel system seems like a bad idea so I’m not going to try it.

 

I think you are saying you want fuel filtration but there’s no point in having water separation since a gascolator won’t work. Can you be 100% certain that you will
never get water in your system? What about flying through rain with a loose fuel cap? What about being parked outside at Oshkosh for a week? If you do get water in the system, where will it go? I hate to fall back on the “It’s always been done that way” argument,
but gascolators exist for a reason.

 

For all the Legacy drivers out there: Have any of you ever discovered water in the gascolator?

 

Good discussion!

-Adam Molny

From: Mark Sletten [mwsletten [at] gmail.com (mailto:)

]


Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:15 AM

To: Adam Molny

Subject: Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Adam,

 

I wasn't questioning the value of fuel filtration, just whether a gascolator is the best choice. As I understand it, the gascolator provides a means to filter the fuel and a low point to catch water that may have gotten into the fuel system.
There are several arguments against using one for the Legacy.

  1. In the Legacy the gascolator is not the lowest point in the fuel delivery path from the tank to the engine, so water in the tank should not flow to the gascolator before turning on the pumps. (I believe
    the same is true of the RV. Has your wife ever drained any water from her gascolator?)

  2. Given the high fuel flow rate and recirculation of unused fuel to the tank, it's unlikely the gascolator will remove any water with the engine running.

  3. The gascolator in the engine compartment provides a large surface area to add heat to the fuel which can contribute to vapor lock. Lancair combats this with a heat shroud and blast air, adding weight and
    complexity.

  4. The gascolator requires numerous fittings and breaks in the fuel lines, adding to complexity, weight and the possibility of fuel leaks.

Since the gascolator appears to be rather useless at removing water, it's primary function for the Legacy is filtration. With so many other filtration options available, it seems illogical to put a gascolator in the engine compartment.

 

What do you think?

 

--Mark

 

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 7:12 AM, Adam Molny <Adam [at] validationpartners.com

> wrote:

Mark –

 

The gascolator provides a large reservoir for capturing water and sediment. It also contains a fine screen
with a fairly large area that acts the final filtration element to keep junk out of your carburetor or injector(s).

 

Case in point: my wife’s RV6-A started showing small amounts of debris when sumping the fuel tank drains
and gascolator. We opened up the gascolator and found a small amount of debris at the bottom of the bowl, and the screen was about 5% blocked. There was no immediate danger, since the bowl would have to completely fill with debris and the screen would have
to be 100% blocked in order to kill the engine. It turned out to be bits of fuel tank sealant flaking off.

 

My point here is that the gascolator acts as a buffer and gives you lots of warning and lots of time to
head off any potential fuel contamination problem.

 

What is the argument for omitting the gascolator on fuel injected engines?

 

-Adam Molny

Legacy N181AM 255hrs

From: Mark Sletten [mailto:mwsletten [at] gmail.com

]


Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:35 AM

Subject: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Gang,

 

First: Gascolators. There is a great deal of debate around the web on the benefits of a gascolator in fuel injected systems. What's the consensus among Lancairians? 

 

Second: I'm considering making my own engine compartment fuel lines. I plan to build them up from scratch including the fire sleeve (or not if the hose is sufficiently fire resistant).
Anyone have a recommendation on the type of hose to use?

 

--Mark

 

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: John B <2thman1 [at] gmail.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] FW: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 17:39:39 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message
Like most of you who responded I would not give up the gascolator.  Have done two annuals since flying and both times have found almost a teaspoon of white fuzzy stuff. Fiberglass particles I'm virtually certain,  and I thought I had done a perfect job of cleaning out the tanks before first flight.

John 

Sent from my iPad


On Jul 24, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Robert R Pastusek <rpastusek [at] htii.com

> wrote:

Adam,



My experience is the same as yours. I often found/drained water out of my old Cherokee tanks, and MANY rental airplanes as well. All were parked outside, and I think avgas came with a certain amount of “water added” in the old days…
L

 

I’ve never found any water in the gascolator of my IV-P, so the fuel doesn’t have/collect any water…or it’s going through
the engine and being vaporized--which I think unlikely. I know the gas caps are MUCH better than the old Cherokee “stoppers,” and I rarely park the Lancair outside these days.

 

Like you, I was meticulous in cleaning/keeping the fuel tanks/lines clean during fabrication and through flight test.
I still collected some small amounts of carbon fuzz, and a few bits of aluminum in the gascolator during testing, and at the first two condition inspections. Almost undetectable bits of something for the last three, not enough to even identify when poured
onto a piece of white paper… So the gascolator/filter is probably not serving a useful function today…but deleting it would be like throwing away the spare tire in my car, IMHO… I carry a few critical spare parts in my airplane for the same reason…

 

Bob

 

From: Lancair
Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net (mailto:)

] On Behalf Of Adam Molny

Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:30 PM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Hi Mark –

 

Our planes are kept in a heated hangar so there’s no opportunity for water in the system from rain or condensation. Back when I was renting Cessnas and Pipers I
did occasionally drain water from the gascolator. Those planes were kept outside.

 

The lowest point in the Legacy fuel system is the fuel selector valve, but it’s not designed to capture water or sediment like a gascolator. Your notion that the
fuel flows too fast for water to settle out is difficult to prove or disprove. I always envisioned tiny globs of water flowing out of the fuel tanks and coalescing into a large glob of water in the gascolator. The real test would be to pour a cup of water
into one wing tank, run the engine at high power, and see where the water ends up (in the gascolator, out the tailpipe, or back to the fuel tank). However, deliberately adding water to the fuel system seems like a bad idea so I’m not going to try it.

 

I think you are saying you want fuel filtration but there’s no point in having water separation since a gascolator won’t work. Can you be 100% certain that you will
never get water in your system? What about flying through rain with a loose fuel cap? What about being parked outside at Oshkosh for a week? If you do get water in the system, where will it go? I hate to fall back on the “It’s always been done that way” argument,
but gascolators exist for a reason.

 

For all the Legacy drivers out there: Have any of you ever discovered water in the gascolator?

 

Good discussion!

-Adam Molny

From: Mark Sletten [mwsletten [at] gmail.com (mailto:)

]


Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:15 AM

To: Adam Molny

Subject: Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Adam,

 

I wasn't questioning the value of fuel filtration, just whether a gascolator is the best choice. As I understand it, the gascolator provides a means to filter the fuel and a low point to catch water that may have gotten into the fuel system.
There are several arguments against using one for the Legacy.

  1. In the Legacy the gascolator is not the lowest point in the fuel delivery path from the tank to the engine, so water in the tank should not flow to the gascolator before turning on the pumps. (I believe
    the same is true of the RV. Has your wife ever drained any water from her gascolator?)

  2. Given the high fuel flow rate and recirculation of unused fuel to the tank, it's unlikely the gascolator will remove any water with the engine running.

  3. The gascolator in the engine compartment provides a large surface area to add heat to the fuel which can contribute to vapor lock. Lancair combats this with a heat shroud and blast air, adding weight and
    complexity.

  4. The gascolator requires numerous fittings and breaks in the fuel lines, adding to complexity, weight and the possibility of fuel leaks.

Since the gascolator appears to be rather useless at removing water, it's primary function for the Legacy is filtration. With so many other filtration options available, it seems illogical to put a gascolator in the engine compartment.

 

What do you think?

 

--Mark

 

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 7:12 AM, Adam Molny <Adam [at] validationpartners.com

> wrote:

Mark –

 

The gascolator provides a large reservoir for capturing water and sediment. It also contains a fine screen
with a fairly large area that acts the final filtration element to keep junk out of your carburetor or injector(s).

 

Case in point: my wife’s RV6-A started showing small amounts of debris when sumping the fuel tank drains
and gascolator. We opened up the gascolator and found a small amount of debris at the bottom of the bowl, and the screen was about 5% blocked. There was no immediate danger, since the bowl would have to completely fill with debris and the screen would have
to be 100% blocked in order to kill the engine. It turned out to be bits of fuel tank sealant flaking off.

 

My point here is that the gascolator acts as a buffer and gives you lots of warning and lots of time to
head off any potential fuel contamination problem.

 

What is the argument for omitting the gascolator on fuel injected engines?

 

-Adam Molny

Legacy N181AM 255hrs

From: Mark Sletten [mailto:mwsletten [at] gmail.com

]


Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:35 AM

Subject: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Gang,

 

First: Gascolators. There is a great deal of debate around the web on the benefits of a gascolator in fuel injected systems. What's the consensus among Lancairians? 

 

Second: I'm considering making my own engine compartment fuel lines. I plan to build them up from scratch including the fire sleeve (or not if the hose is sufficiently fire resistant).
Anyone have a recommendation on the type of hose to use?

 

--Mark

 

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Charles Brown <browncc1 [at] verizon.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 05:39:34 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message



Data point for gascolators:



Legacy IO550, unheated hangar in Dallas (variable humidity, but on the dry side), fuel from municipal self-serve pump, and from self-serves whenever possible on cross-country.



1.  Have never seen water or sediment in the wings.  Dunno why not.  Other planes at same airport -- pretty much same deal.  



2.  Never seen water in the gascolator.  I check it at every oil filter change.



3.  After build, the gascolator trapped on the screen some grayish fuzz and in the bowl small soft gray bits of ... proseal? ... in diminishing amounts over the first 150 hours / 1 year.  After that -- nothing.  



4.  In spite of having a gascolator and taking all the same precautions that people mention -- wing sloshing etc -- an injector plugged at about 18 hours during Phase 1 testing.  Was there debris in the fuel lines *downstream* of the gascolator?



I don't trust fuel supplies, and I don't *ever* want an engine failure (especially in a Lancair), so I'm keepin the gascolator.



Charley Brown

Legacy #299   400 hr

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Mark Sletten <mwsletten [at] gmail.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: FW: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 05:42:28 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message
Gang,

The vast majority of answers on this subject have focused on the filtration benefits of the gascolator. I think Dennis Johnson's observations are spot on. If one carefully sumps the tanks (ensuring the aircraft is sitting on a level surface) prior to engine start it would be nigh impossible to get a coherent slug of water large enough and to interfere significantly with engine operation. This is especially true for fuel injected Continental installations, where a significant portion of the fuel pumped to the engine is unused and returned to the tank. Is it possible for a very large slug of water to remain coherent in five gallons of fuel while agitated by aircraft motion and fuel recirculation? I suppose it is, but it seems unlikely to me.

That aside, no one has mentioned ever finding water in the gascolator of their Lancair. Which makes sense, because in order to do so water would have flow uphill while on the ground, or remain separated enough from the fuel to fall out while flowing thru the gascolator at something approaching a half-a-gallon per minute while the engine is running.

Regarding the filtration capabilities of the gascolator; I've emailed Andair for more information on the specifications (filtration level, filter material area, max fuel flow, etc.), but they have yet to respond. If anyone has this information I would greatly appreciate it.

Kevin Stallard suggested the gascolator would appear to be a better option as a filter than an inline style. The type of inline filter I'm talking about is not your prototypical one-inch diameter, one-inch long plastic see-thru filter we've all seen on our lawnmowers. I talking about something more like this:


This filter is 1.75" in diameter and 6.25" long. If the filtration media was a simple cylinder that size would yield 30+ square inches of filtration area. Since the media is pleated (much like your typical oil filter), the filtration area is actually much larger. Maximum flow rate is 150 gph, which is more than three times that required for an IO-550. That suggests this filter could be two-thirds clogged with crud and still have adequate fuel flow. And let's not forget there would be one filter for each tank; if one clogs I can still switch tanks.

Additionally, this isn't a throw-one-in-and-hope-it-works scenario. These filters would be installed in a location making it exceptionally easy to remove for inspection/servicing--something that would occur following every engine run up to first flight. My reasoning is that such a test regimen will reveal any problems of the type mentioned here.

Thoughts?

--Mark







On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:39 PM, John B <2thman1 [at] gmail.com

> wrote:
Like most of you who responded I would not give up the gascolator.  Have done two annuals since flying and both times have found almost a teaspoon of white fuzzy stuff. Fiberglass particles I'm virtually certain,  and I thought I had done a perfect job of cleaning out the tanks before first flight.

John 

Sent from my iPad


On Jul 24, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Robert R Pastusek <rpastusek [at] htii.com

> wrote:


Adam,



My experience is the same as yours. I often found/drained water out of my old Cherokee tanks, and MANY rental airplanes as well. All were parked outside, and I think avgas came with a certain amount of “water added” in the old days…
L

 

I’ve never found any water in the gascolator of my IV-P, so the fuel doesn’t have/collect any water…or it’s going through
the engine and being vaporized--which I think unlikely. I know the gas caps are MUCH better than the old Cherokee “stoppers,” and I rarely park the Lancair outside these days.

 

Like you, I was meticulous in cleaning/keeping the fuel tanks/lines clean during fabrication and through flight test.
I still collected some small amounts of carbon fuzz, and a few bits of aluminum in the gascolator during testing, and at the first two condition inspections. Almost undetectable bits of something for the last three, not enough to even identify when poured
onto a piece of white paper… So the gascolator/filter is probably not serving a useful function today…but deleting it would be like throwing away the spare tire in my car, IMHO… I carry a few critical spare parts in my airplane for the same reason…

 

Bob

 

From: Lancair
Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net (mailto:)

] On Behalf Of Adam Molny

Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:30 PM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Hi Mark –

 

Our planes are kept in a heated hangar so there’s no opportunity for water in the system from rain or condensation. Back when I was renting Cessnas and Pipers I
did occasionally drain water from the gascolator. Those planes were kept outside.

 

The lowest point in the Legacy fuel system is the fuel selector valve, but it’s not designed to capture water or sediment like a gascolator. Your notion that the
fuel flows too fast for water to settle out is difficult to prove or disprove. I always envisioned tiny globs of water flowing out of the fuel tanks and coalescing into a large glob of water in the gascolator. The real test would be to pour a cup of water
into one wing tank, run the engine at high power, and see where the water ends up (in the gascolator, out the tailpipe, or back to the fuel tank). However, deliberately adding water to the fuel system seems like a bad idea so I’m not going to try it.

 

I think you are saying you want fuel filtration but there’s no point in having water separation since a gascolator won’t work. Can you be 100% certain that you will
never get water in your system? What about flying through rain with a loose fuel cap? What about being parked outside at Oshkosh for a week? If you do get water in the system, where will it go? I hate to fall back on the “It’s always been done that way” argument,
but gascolators exist for a reason.

 

For all the Legacy drivers out there: Have any of you ever discovered water in the gascolator?

 

Good discussion!

-Adam Molny

From: Mark Sletten [mwsletten [at] gmail.com (mailto:)

]

Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:15 AM

To: Adam Molny
Subject: Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Adam,

 

I wasn't questioning the value of fuel filtration, just whether a gascolator is the best choice. As I understand it, the gascolator provides a means to filter the fuel and a low point to catch water that may have gotten into the fuel system.
There are several arguments against using one for the Legacy.

  1. In the Legacy the gascolator is not the lowest point in the fuel delivery path from the tank to the engine, so water in the tank should not flow to the gascolator before turning on the pumps. (I believe
    the same is true of the RV. Has your wife ever drained any water from her gascolator?)
  2. Given the high fuel flow rate and recirculation of unused fuel to the tank, it's unlikely the gascolator will remove any water with the engine running.

  3. The gascolator in the engine compartment provides a large surface area to add heat to the fuel which can contribute to vapor lock. Lancair combats this with a heat shroud and blast air, adding weight and
    complexity.

  4. The gascolator requires numerous fittings and breaks in the fuel lines, adding to complexity, weight and the possibility of fuel leaks.

Since the gascolator appears to be rather useless at removing water, it's primary function for the Legacy is filtration. With so many other filtration options available, it seems illogical to put a gascolator in the engine compartment.

 

What do you think?

 

--Mark

 

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 7:12 AM, Adam Molny <Adam [at] validationpartners.com

> wrote:

Mark –

 

The gascolator provides a large reservoir for capturing water and sediment. It also contains a fine screen
with a fairly large area that acts the final filtration element to keep junk out of your carburetor or injector(s).

 

Case in point: my wife’s RV6-A started showing small amounts of debris when sumping the fuel tank drains
and gascolator. We opened up the gascolator and found a small amount of debris at the bottom of the bowl, and the screen was about 5% blocked. There was no immediate danger, since the bowl would have to completely fill with debris and the screen would have
to be 100% blocked in order to kill the engine. It turned out to be bits of fuel tank sealant flaking off.

 

My point here is that the gascolator acts as a buffer and gives you lots of warning and lots of time to
head off any potential fuel contamination problem.

 

What is the argument for omitting the gascolator on fuel injected engines?

 

-Adam Molny

Legacy N181AM 255hrs

From: Mark Sletten [mailto:mwsletten [at] gmail.com

]

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:35 AM

Subject: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Gang,

 

First: Gascolators. There is a great deal of debate around the web on the benefits of a gascolator in fuel injected systems. What's the consensus among Lancairians? 

 

Second: I'm considering making my own engine compartment fuel lines. I plan to build them up from scratch including the fire sleeve (or not if the hose is sufficiently fire resistant).
Anyone have a recommendation on the type of hose to use?

 

--Mark

 

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Mark Sletten <mwsletten [at] gmail.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: FW: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 05:42:40 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message
BTW, we might consider taking this discussion over to LancairTalk.net. I've already posted the bulk of my argument here:


--Mark





On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:39 PM, John B <2thman1 [at] gmail.com

> wrote:
Like most of you who responded I would not give up the gascolator.  Have done two annuals since flying and both times have found almost a teaspoon of white fuzzy stuff. Fiberglass particles I'm virtually certain,  and I thought I had done a perfect job of cleaning out the tanks before first flight.

John 

Sent from my iPad


On Jul 24, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Robert R Pastusek <rpastusek [at] htii.com

> wrote:


Adam,



My experience is the same as yours. I often found/drained water out of my old Cherokee tanks, and MANY rental airplanes as well. All were parked outside, and I think avgas came with a certain amount of “water added” in the old days…
L

 

I’ve never found any water in the gascolator of my IV-P, so the fuel doesn’t have/collect any water…or it’s going through
the engine and being vaporized--which I think unlikely. I know the gas caps are MUCH better than the old Cherokee “stoppers,” and I rarely park the Lancair outside these days.

 

Like you, I was meticulous in cleaning/keeping the fuel tanks/lines clean during fabrication and through flight test.
I still collected some small amounts of carbon fuzz, and a few bits of aluminum in the gascolator during testing, and at the first two condition inspections. Almost undetectable bits of something for the last three, not enough to even identify when poured
onto a piece of white paper… So the gascolator/filter is probably not serving a useful function today…but deleting it would be like throwing away the spare tire in my car, IMHO… I carry a few critical spare parts in my airplane for the same reason…

 

Bob

 

From: Lancair
Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net (mailto:)

] On Behalf Of Adam Molny

Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:30 PM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Hi Mark –

 

Our planes are kept in a heated hangar so there’s no opportunity for water in the system from rain or condensation. Back when I was renting Cessnas and Pipers I
did occasionally drain water from the gascolator. Those planes were kept outside.

 

The lowest point in the Legacy fuel system is the fuel selector valve, but it’s not designed to capture water or sediment like a gascolator. Your notion that the
fuel flows too fast for water to settle out is difficult to prove or disprove. I always envisioned tiny globs of water flowing out of the fuel tanks and coalescing into a large glob of water in the gascolator. The real test would be to pour a cup of water
into one wing tank, run the engine at high power, and see where the water ends up (in the gascolator, out the tailpipe, or back to the fuel tank). However, deliberately adding water to the fuel system seems like a bad idea so I’m not going to try it.

 

I think you are saying you want fuel filtration but there’s no point in having water separation since a gascolator won’t work. Can you be 100% certain that you will
never get water in your system? What about flying through rain with a loose fuel cap? What about being parked outside at Oshkosh for a week? If you do get water in the system, where will it go? I hate to fall back on the “It’s always been done that way” argument,
but gascolators exist for a reason.

 

For all the Legacy drivers out there: Have any of you ever discovered water in the gascolator?

 

Good discussion!

-Adam Molny

From: Mark Sletten [mwsletten [at] gmail.com (mailto:)

]

Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:15 AM

To: Adam Molny
Subject: Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Adam,

 

I wasn't questioning the value of fuel filtration, just whether a gascolator is the best choice. As I understand it, the gascolator provides a means to filter the fuel and a low point to catch water that may have gotten into the fuel system.
There are several arguments against using one for the Legacy.

  1. In the Legacy the gascolator is not the lowest point in the fuel delivery path from the tank to the engine, so water in the tank should not flow to the gascolator before turning on the pumps. (I believe
    the same is true of the RV. Has your wife ever drained any water from her gascolator?)
  2. Given the high fuel flow rate and recirculation of unused fuel to the tank, it's unlikely the gascolator will remove any water with the engine running.

  3. The gascolator in the engine compartment provides a large surface area to add heat to the fuel which can contribute to vapor lock. Lancair combats this with a heat shroud and blast air, adding weight and
    complexity.

  4. The gascolator requires numerous fittings and breaks in the fuel lines, adding to complexity, weight and the possibility of fuel leaks.

Since the gascolator appears to be rather useless at removing water, it's primary function for the Legacy is filtration. With so many other filtration options available, it seems illogical to put a gascolator in the engine compartment.

 

What do you think?

 

--Mark

 

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 7:12 AM, Adam Molny <Adam [at] validationpartners.com

> wrote:

Mark –

 

The gascolator provides a large reservoir for capturing water and sediment. It also contains a fine screen
with a fairly large area that acts the final filtration element to keep junk out of your carburetor or injector(s).

 

Case in point: my wife’s RV6-A started showing small amounts of debris when sumping the fuel tank drains
and gascolator. We opened up the gascolator and found a small amount of debris at the bottom of the bowl, and the screen was about 5% blocked. There was no immediate danger, since the bowl would have to completely fill with debris and the screen would have
to be 100% blocked in order to kill the engine. It turned out to be bits of fuel tank sealant flaking off.

 

My point here is that the gascolator acts as a buffer and gives you lots of warning and lots of time to
head off any potential fuel contamination problem.

 

What is the argument for omitting the gascolator on fuel injected engines?

 

-Adam Molny

Legacy N181AM 255hrs

From: Mark Sletten [mailto:mwsletten [at] gmail.com

]

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:35 AM

Subject: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Gang,

 

First: Gascolators. There is a great deal of debate around the web on the benefits of a gascolator in fuel injected systems. What's the consensus among Lancairians? 

 

Second: I'm considering making my own engine compartment fuel lines. I plan to build them up from scratch including the fire sleeve (or not if the hose is sufficiently fire resistant).
Anyone have a recommendation on the type of hose to use?

 

--Mark

 

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Robert R Pastusek <rpastusek [at] htii.com>
Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 12:46:43 +0000
To: Lancair Mailing List <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

Charlie,

My experience over the past six years/1200 hours in my IV-P closely parallels yours. I believe our aviation fuel supply system is much "cleaner" than it used to be, and my wingtop gas caps don't leak--water...a problem with lots of airplanes. So after a couple of years of catching just a few bits and pieces in the gascolator, it's been completely clean.



Still, it only takes one time...so I'm staying with the gascolator. The gascolator filter looks like it wouldn't catch anything smaller than nuts and bolts, but it's a proven device over many years of aviation use. There are definitely better filters available, but they have drawbacks/limitations.



Bob



-----Original Message-----

From: Lancair Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net (mailto:)

] On Behalf Of Charles Brown

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 5:40 AM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.





Data point for gascolators:



Legacy IO550, unheated hangar in Dallas (variable humidity, but on the dry side), fuel from municipal self-serve pump, and from self-serves whenever possible on cross-country.



1.  Have never seen water or sediment in the wings.  Dunno why not.  Other planes at same airport -- pretty much same deal.  



2.  Never seen water in the gascolator.  I check it at every oil filter change.



3.  After build, the gascolator trapped on the screen some grayish fuzz and in the bowl small soft gray bits of ... proseal? ... in diminishing amounts over the first 150 hours / 1 year.  After that -- nothing.  



4.  In spite of having a gascolator and taking all the same precautions that people mention -- wing sloshing etc -- an injector plugged at about 18 hours during Phase 1 testing.  Was there debris in the fuel lines *downstream* of the gascolator?



I don't trust fuel supplies, and I don't *ever* want an engine failure (especially in a Lancair), so I'm keepin the gascolator.



Charley Brown

Legacy #299   400 hr

--

For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry [at] verizon.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: [LML] Re: FW: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 12:16:18 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message



Mark,

 

I would not recommend this type of filter
for an airplane. 

I couldn’t find a part number for
the replacement filter media for this filter.  The filter part number
itself is different depending on whether you want cellulose at 10 microns or
steel at 100 microns.  I bought a similar diameter filter that was three
and a half inches long and the filter media was a round flat screen that the
fuel flowed through.  The filter media was about three quarters, seven
eighths inch in diameter and would take nothing to plug it up completely, which
it did after about an hour of running.  It was a black sludgey material
that I think came from my incomplete cleaning of the fuel hoses that I made up
after cutting to length and installing the hose ends.  Anyway after I saw
how easily they were to plug, I got rid of them and installed a fuel filter of
the style of an oil filter.  They have a lot of filter media and will plug
very slowly so you should be able to see your pressure or flow dropping for
quite some time before you would lose the engine.

 

I am not recommending this particular filter,
but it is of the type I would recommend.

 

  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1507/overview/

 

Bill

 

From:
Lancair Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net]">mailto:lml [at] lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of
Mark
Sletten

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:42
AM

To:
Lancair
Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: FW: [LML] Re:
Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Gang,

 

The vast majority of answers on this subject have focused on the
filtration benefits of the gascolator. I think
Dennis
Johnson's observations are spot on. If one carefully sumps
the tanks (ensuring the aircraft is sitting on a level surface) prior to engine
start it would be nigh impossible to get a coherent slug of water large enough
and to interfere significantly with engine operation. This is especially true
for fuel injected Continental installations, where a significant portion of the
fuel pumped to the engine is unused and returned to the tank. Is it possible
for a very large slug of water to remain coherent in five gallons of fuel while
agitated by aircraft motion and fuel recirculation? I suppose it is, but it
seems unlikely to me.

 

That aside, no one has mentioned ever finding water in the gascolator
of their Lancair. Which makes sense, because in order to do so water would have
flow uphill while on the ground, or remain separated enough from the fuel to
fall out while flowing thru the gascolator at something approaching a
half-a-gallon per minute while the engine is running.

 

Regarding the filtration capabilities of the gascolator; I've emailed
Andair for more information on the specifications (filtration level, filter
material area, max fuel flow, etc.), but they have yet to respond. If anyone
has this information I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Kevin Stallard suggested the gascolator would appear to be a better
option as a filter than an inline style. The type of inline filter I'm talking
about is not your prototypical one-inch diameter, one-inch long plastic
see-thru filter we've all seen on our lawnmowers. I talking about something
more like this:

 

 

This filter is 1.75" in diameter and 6.25" long. If the
filtration media was a simple cylinder that size would yield 30+ square inches
of filtration area. Since the media is pleated (much like your typical oil
filter), the filtration area is actually much larger. Maximum flow rate is 150
gph, which is more than three times that required for an IO-550. That suggests
this filter could be two-thirds clogged with crud and still have adequate fuel
flow. And let's not forget there would be one filter for each tank; if one
clogs I can still switch tanks.

 

Additionally, this isn't a throw-one-in-and-hope-it-works scenario.
These filters would be installed in a location making it exceptionally easy to
remove for inspection/servicing--something that would occur following every
engine run up to first flight. My reasoning is that such a test regimen will
reveal any problems of the type mentioned here.

 

Thoughts?

 

--Mark

 

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:39 PM, John B <2thman1 [at] gmail.com

>
wrote:

Like most of you who responded I would not give up the gascolator.
 Have done two annuals since flying and both times have found almost a
teaspoon of white fuzzy stuff. Fiberglass particles I'm virtually certain,
 and I thought I had done a perfect job of cleaning out the tanks before
first flight.

 

John 



Sent from my iPad

 



On Jul 24, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Robert R Pastusek <rpastusek [at] htii.com

>
wrote:

Adam,



My experience is the same as yours. I often found/drained water out of my old
Cherokee tanks, and MANY rental airplanes as well. All were parked outside, and
I think avgas came with a certain amount of “water added” in the
old days… L

 

I’ve never found any water in the gascolator of my
IV-P, so the fuel doesn’t have/collect any water…or it’s
going through the engine and being vaporized--which I think unlikely. I know
the gas caps are MUCH better than the old Cherokee “stoppers,” and
I rarely park the Lancair outside these days.

 

Like you, I was meticulous in cleaning/keeping the fuel
tanks/lines clean during fabrication and through flight test. I still collected
some small amounts of carbon fuzz, and a few bits of aluminum in the gascolator
during testing, and at the first two condition inspections. Almost undetectable
bits of something for the last three, not enough to even identify when poured
onto a piece of white paper… So the gascolator/filter is probably not
serving a useful function today…but deleting it would be like throwing
away the spare tire in my car, IMHO… I carry a few critical spare parts
in my airplane for the same reason…

 

Bob

 

From:
Lancair Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net (mailto:)

]
On Behalf Of Adam Molny

Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:30
PM

To:
Lancair
Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: Gascolators and
fuel lines.

 

Hi Mark –

 

Our planes are kept in a heated hangar so there’s no
opportunity for water in the system from rain or condensation. Back when I was
renting Cessnas and Pipers I did occasionally drain water from the gascolator.
Those planes were kept outside.

 

The lowest point in the Legacy fuel system is the fuel selector
valve, but it’s not designed to capture water or sediment like a
gascolator. Your notion that the fuel flows too fast for water to settle out is
difficult to prove or disprove. I always envisioned tiny globs of water flowing
out of the fuel tanks and coalescing into a large glob of water in the gascolator.
The real test would be to pour a cup of water into one wing tank, run the
engine at high power, and see where the water ends up (in the gascolator, out
the tailpipe, or back to the fuel tank). However, deliberately adding water to
the fuel system seems like a bad idea so I’m not going to try it.

 

I think you are saying you want fuel filtration but there’s
no point in having water separation since a gascolator won’t work. Can
you be 100% certain that you will never get water in your system? What about
flying through rain with a loose fuel cap? What about being parked outside at
Oshkosh for a week? If
you do get water in the system, where will it go? I hate to fall back on the
“It’s always been done that way” argument, but gascolators
exist for a reason.

 

For all the Legacy drivers out there: Have any of you ever
discovered water in the gascolator?

 

Good discussion!

-Adam Molny

From:
Mark Sletten [mwsletten [at] gmail.com (mailto:)

]

Sent: Thursday,
July 24, 2014 9:15 AM

To: Adam Molny

Subject: Re:
Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Adam,

 

I wasn't
questioning the value of fuel filtration, just whether a gascolator is the best
choice. As I understand it, the gascolator provides a means to filter the fuel
and a low point to catch water that may have gotten into the fuel system. There
are several arguments against using one for the Legacy.

  1. In the Legacy the gascolator is not the lowest
    point in the fuel delivery path from the tank to the engine, so water in
    the tank should not flow to the gascolator before turning on the pumps. (I
    believe the same is true of the RV. Has your wife ever drained any water
    from her gascolator?)

  1. Given the high fuel flow rate and recirculation
    of unused fuel to the tank, it's unlikely the gascolator will remove any
    water with the engine running.

  1. The gascolator in the engine compartment provides
    a large surface area to add heat to the fuel which can contribute to vapor
    lock. Lancair combats this with a heat shroud and blast air, adding weight
    and complexity.

  1. The gascolator requires numerous fittings and
    breaks in the fuel lines, adding to complexity, weight and the possibility
    of fuel leaks.

Since the
gascolator appears to be rather useless at removing water, it's primary
function for the Legacy is filtration. With so many other filtration options
available, it seems illogical to put a gascolator in the engine compartment.

 

What do you think?

 

--Mark

 

On Thu, Jul 24,
2014 at 7:12 AM, Adam Molny <Adam [at] validationpartners.com

> wrote:

Mark –

 

The gascolator provides a large reservoir for capturing water and
sediment. It also contains a fine screen with a fairly large area that acts the
final filtration element to keep junk out of your carburetor or injector(s).

 

Case in point: my wife’s RV6-A started showing small amounts
of debris when sumping the fuel tank drains and gascolator. We opened up the
gascolator and found a small amount of debris at the bottom of the bowl, and
the screen was about 5% blocked. There was no immediate danger, since the bowl
would have to completely fill with debris and the screen would have to be 100%
blocked in order to kill the engine. It turned out to be bits of fuel tank
sealant flaking off.

 

My point here is that the gascolator acts as a buffer and gives you
lots of warning and lots of time to head off any potential fuel contamination
problem.

 

What is the argument for omitting the gascolator on fuel injected
engines?

 

-Adam Molny

Legacy N181AM 255hrs

From:
Mark Sletten [mailto:mwsletten [at] gmail.com

]

Sent: Wednesday,
July 23, 2014 7:35 AM

Subject: Gascolators and fuel
lines.

 

Gang,

 

First:
Gascolators. There is a great deal of debate around the web on the benefits of
a gascolator in fuel injected systems. What's the consensus among
Lancairians? 

 

Second: I'm
considering making my own engine compartment fuel lines. I plan to build them
up from scratch including the fire sleeve (or not if the hose is sufficiently
fire resistant). Anyone have a recommendation on the type of hose to use?

 

--Mark

 

 

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Jeffrey W. Skiba <jskiba [at] icosa.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 13:05:33 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

Another option is:

http://www.weldonracing.com/product/25/EFI_and_Carbureted_Filter_Assembly.html

 

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net]">mailto:lml [at] lancaironline.net]
On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:16 AM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: FW: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Mark,

 

I would not recommend this type of filter for an airplane. 

I couldn’t find a part number for the replacement filter media for this filter.  The filter part number itself is different depending on whether you want cellulose
at 10 microns or steel at 100 microns.  I bought a similar diameter filter that was three and a half inches long and the filter media was a round flat screen that the fuel flowed through.  The filter media was about three quarters, seven eighths inch in diameter
and would take nothing to plug it up completely, which it did after about an hour of running.  It was a black sludgey material that I think came from my incomplete cleaning of the fuel hoses that I made up after cutting to length and installing the hose ends. 
Anyway after I saw how easily they were to plug, I got rid of them and installed a fuel filter of the style of an oil filter.  They have a lot of filter media and will plug very slowly so you should be able to see your pressure or flow dropping for quite some
time before you would lose the engine.

 

I am not recommending this particular filter, but it is of the type I would recommend.

 

  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1507/overview/

 

Bill

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net (mailto:)

]
On Behalf Of Mark Sletten

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:42 AM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: FW: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Gang,

 

The vast majority of answers on this subject have focused on the filtration benefits of the gascolator. I think Dennis Johnson's observations are spot on. If one carefully sumps the tanks (ensuring the aircraft is sitting on a level surface)
prior to engine start it would be nigh impossible to get a coherent slug of water large enough and to interfere significantly with engine operation. This is especially true for fuel injected Continental installations, where a significant portion of the fuel
pumped to the engine is unused and returned to the tank. Is it possible for a very large slug of water to remain coherent in five gallons of fuel while agitated by aircraft motion and fuel recirculation? I suppose it is, but it seems unlikely to me.

 

That aside, no one has mentioned ever finding water in the gascolator of their Lancair. Which makes sense, because in order to do so water would have flow uphill while on the ground, or remain separated enough from the fuel to fall out
while flowing thru the gascolator at something approaching a half-a-gallon per minute while the engine is running.

 

Regarding the filtration capabilities of the gascolator; I've emailed Andair for more information on the specifications (filtration level, filter material area, max fuel flow, etc.), but they have yet to respond. If anyone has this information
I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Kevin Stallard suggested the gascolator would appear to be a better option as a filter than an inline style. The type of inline filter I'm talking about is not your prototypical one-inch diameter, one-inch long plastic see-thru filter we've
all seen on our lawnmowers. I talking about something more like this:

 

 

This filter is 1.75" in diameter and 6.25" long. If the filtration media was a simple cylinder that size would yield 30+ square inches of filtration area. Since the media is pleated (much like your typical oil filter), the filtration area
is actually much larger. Maximum flow rate is 150 gph, which is more than three times that required for an IO-550. That suggests this filter could be two-thirds clogged with crud and still have adequate fuel flow. And let's not forget there would be one filter
for each tank; if one clogs I can still switch tanks.

 

Additionally, this isn't a throw-one-in-and-hope-it-works scenario. These filters would be installed in a location making it exceptionally easy to remove for inspection/servicing--something that would occur following every engine run up
to first flight. My reasoning is that such a test regimen will reveal any problems of the type mentioned here.

 

Thoughts?

 

--Mark

 

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:39 PM, John B <2thman1 [at] gmail.com

> wrote:

Like most of you who responded I would not give up the gascolator.  Have done two annuals since flying and both times have found almost a teaspoon of white fuzzy stuff. Fiberglass particles I'm virtually certain,  and I thought I had done
a perfect job of cleaning out the tanks before first flight.

 

John 



Sent from my iPad

 



On Jul 24, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Robert R Pastusek <rpastusek [at] htii.com

> wrote:

Adam,



My experience is the same as yours. I often found/drained water out of my old Cherokee tanks, and MANY rental airplanes as well. All were parked outside, and I think avgas came with a certain amount of “water added” in the old days…
L

 

I’ve never found any water in the gascolator of my IV-P, so the fuel doesn’t have/collect any water…or
it’s going through the engine and being vaporized--which I think unlikely. I know the gas caps are MUCH better than the old Cherokee “stoppers,” and I rarely park the Lancair outside these days.

 

Like you, I was meticulous in cleaning/keeping the fuel tanks/lines clean during fabrication and
through flight test. I still collected some small amounts of carbon fuzz, and a few bits of aluminum in the gascolator during testing, and at the first two condition inspections. Almost undetectable bits of something for the last three, not enough to even
identify when poured onto a piece of white paper… So the gascolator/filter is probably not serving a useful function today…but deleting it would be like throwing away the spare tire in my car, IMHO… I carry a few critical spare parts in my airplane for the
same reason…

 

Bob

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net (mailto:)

]
On Behalf Of Adam Molny

Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:30 PM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Hi Mark –

 

Our planes are kept in a heated hangar so there’s no opportunity for water in the system from rain or
condensation. Back when I was renting Cessnas and Pipers I did occasionally drain water from the gascolator. Those planes were kept outside.

 

The lowest point in the Legacy fuel system is the fuel selector valve, but it’s not designed to capture
water or sediment like a gascolator. Your notion that the fuel flows too fast for water to settle out is difficult to prove or disprove. I always envisioned tiny globs of water flowing out of the fuel tanks and coalescing into a large glob of water in the
gascolator. The real test would be to pour a cup of water into one wing tank, run the engine at high power, and see where the water ends up (in the gascolator, out the tailpipe, or back to the fuel tank). However, deliberately adding water to the fuel system
seems like a bad idea so I’m not going to try it.

 

I think you are saying you want fuel filtration but there’s no point in having water separation since
a gascolator won’t work. Can you be 100% certain that you will never get water in your system? What about flying through rain with a loose fuel cap? What about being parked outside at Oshkosh for a week? If you do get water in the system, where will it go?
I hate to fall back on the “It’s always been done that way” argument, but gascolators exist for a reason.

 

For all the Legacy drivers out there: Have any of you ever discovered water in the gascolator?

 

Good discussion!

-Adam Molny

From: Mark Sletten [mwsletten [at] gmail.com (mailto:)

]

Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:15 AM

To: Adam Molny

Subject: Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Adam,

 

I wasn't questioning the value of fuel filtration, just whether a gascolator is the best choice. As I understand it, the gascolator provides a means to filter the fuel and a low
point to catch water that may have gotten into the fuel system. There are several arguments against using one for the Legacy.

  1. In the Legacy the gascolator is not the lowest point in the fuel delivery path from the tank to the engine, so water in the tank should not flow to the gascolator before turning on the pumps. (I believe the same is true of the RV. Has your wife ever drained
    any water from her gascolator?)
  1. Given the high fuel flow rate and recirculation of unused fuel to the tank, it's unlikely the gascolator will remove any water with the engine running.
  1. The gascolator in the engine compartment provides a large surface area to add heat to the fuel which can contribute to vapor lock. Lancair combats this with a heat shroud and blast air, adding weight and complexity.
  1. The gascolator requires numerous fittings and breaks in the fuel lines, adding to complexity, weight and the possibility of fuel leaks.

Since the gascolator appears to be rather useless at removing water, it's primary function for the Legacy is filtration. With so many other filtration options available, it seems
illogical to put a gascolator in the engine compartment.

 

What do you think?

 

--Mark

 

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 7:12 AM, Adam Molny <Adam [at] validationpartners.com

> wrote:

Mark –

 

The gascolator provides a large reservoir for capturing water and sediment. It also contains a fine screen
with a fairly large area that acts the final filtration element to keep junk out of your carburetor or injector(s).

 

Case in point: my wife’s RV6-A started showing small amounts of debris when sumping the fuel tank drains
and gascolator. We opened up the gascolator and found a small amount of debris at the bottom of the bowl, and the screen was about 5% blocked. There was no immediate danger, since the bowl would have to completely fill with debris and the screen would have
to be 100% blocked in order to kill the engine. It turned out to be bits of fuel tank sealant flaking off.

 

My point here is that the gascolator acts as a buffer and gives you lots of warning and lots of time to
head off any potential fuel contamination problem.

 

What is the argument for omitting the gascolator on fuel injected engines?

 

-Adam Molny

Legacy N181AM 255hrs

From: Mark Sletten [mailto:mwsletten [at] gmail.com

]

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:35 AM

Subject: Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Gang,

 

First: Gascolators. There is a great deal of debate around the web on the benefits of a gascolator in fuel injected systems. What's the consensus among Lancairians? 

 

Second: I'm considering making my own engine compartment fuel lines. I plan to build them up from scratch including the fire sleeve (or not if the hose is sufficiently fire resistant).
Anyone have a recommendation on the type of hose to use?

 

--Mark

 

 


Image


image001.png

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: <Sky2high [at] aol.com>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: FW: [LML] Re: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 15:30:24 -0400 (EDT)
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

All,
 
Fuel lines:
 
All flexible fluid lines in the engine compartment should be teflon in SS
braid with steel fittings and integrated fire sleeve.
 
1. No known life limit.
2. Straight steel fitting are least expensive - if required, use elbow and
45 degree fittings on the attach point, not the line fitting.
3. Hose builders can apply integrated fire sleeves that are sealed at
each hose end, not those loose silicon and fiber glass ones that require dipping
the ends in liquid silicon and then securing the ends with a metal band and
a special tool.  The seal is to keep fuel or oil from
contaminating the sleeve.
4. The only drawback is that these lines are slightly heavier than the old
style aeroquip lines.
5. If you must build your own, consider Earl's for supplies.
 
Gascolator and filters:
 
In my injected engine I used an old style Cessna type gascolator filter
with a built in flush drain that allows one to sump that filter (Backwash) by
pulling on a Bowden cable accessible at the oil dip stick door.  Remember
this about filters - There is a coarse filter in each gas tank.  The next
filter (gascolator) comes before the boost pump. Then there is a very
fine finger filter in Bendix style throttle bodies to filter fuel before it
reaches the distribution spider and injectors.  I think all throttle bodies
have such a filter.  This is the filter to check for very small
construction debris - at least at an annual.    
 
Water in fuel sources, etc:
 
1. From using a lousy FBO without water filters on their storage tanks and
trucks.
2. Condensation that usually occurs in partially filled metal wing
tanks.  This is almost never a problem with a Lancair because of the
composite construction of the fuel tanks.
3. Water entering a vent line in something like a vented gas cap. 
Again, not likely with the Lancair venting system unless one constantly flies in
rain/mist.
 
If one has a header tank, the gascolator with the sump drain might
help with water removal, if any.
 
Scott Krueger
 
 

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: Jim Nordin <panelmaker [at] earthlink.net>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 05:37:27 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message

No problem. Just pull over to the side of
the road, clean it out and carry on. !

I don’t get it. Isn’t proven aircraft
grade good enough? We’re not talking megabucks.

Jim

 

From: Lancair Mailing
List [lml [at] lancaironline.net]">mailto:lml [at] lancaironline.net] On Behalf
Of Jeffrey W. Skiba

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 12:06
PM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: Gascolators and
fuel lines.

 

Another option is:

http://www.weldonracing.com/product/25/EFI_and_Carbureted_Filter_Assembly.html

 

 

From: Lancair
Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net]">mailto:lml [at] lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of Bill Bradburry

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:16
AM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: FW: [LML] Re:
Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Mark,

 

I would not recommend this type of filter
for an airplane. 

I couldn’t find a part number for
the replacement filter media for this filter.  The filter part number
itself is different depending on whether you want cellulose at 10 microns or
steel at 100 microns.  I bought a similar diameter filter that was three
and a half inches long and the filter media was a round flat screen that the
fuel flowed through.  The filter media was about three quarters, seven
eighths inch in diameter and would take nothing to plug it up completely, which
it did after about an hour of running.  It was a black sludgey material
that I think came from my incomplete cleaning of the fuel hoses that I made up
after cutting to length and installing the hose ends.  Anyway after I saw how
easily they were to plug, I got rid of them and installed a fuel filter of the
style of an oil filter.  They have a lot of filter media and will plug
very slowly so you should be able to see your pressure or flow dropping for
quite some time before you would lose the engine.

 

I am not recommending this particular
filter, but it is of the type I would recommend.

 

  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1507/overview/

 

Bill

 

From: Lancair Mailing
List [lml [at] lancaironline.net (mailto:)

] On Behalf Of Mark Sletten

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 4:42
AM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: FW: [LML] Re:
Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Gang,

 

The vast majority of answers on this subject have focused on the
filtration benefits of the gascolator. I think Dennis Johnson's observations
are spot on. If one carefully sumps the tanks (ensuring the aircraft is sitting
on a level surface) prior to engine start it would be nigh impossible to get a
coherent slug of water large enough and to interfere significantly with engine
operation. This is especially true for fuel injected Continental installations,
where a significant portion of the fuel pumped to the engine is unused and
returned to the tank. Is it possible for a very large slug of water to remain
coherent in five gallons of fuel while agitated by aircraft motion and fuel
recirculation? I suppose it is, but it seems unlikely to me.

 

That aside, no one has mentioned ever finding water in the gascolator
of their Lancair. Which makes sense, because in order to do so water would have
flow uphill while on the ground, or remain separated enough from the fuel to
fall out while flowing thru the gascolator at something approaching a
half-a-gallon per minute while the engine is running.

 

Regarding the filtration capabilities of the gascolator; I've emailed
Andair for more information on the specifications (filtration level, filter
material area, max fuel flow, etc.), but they have yet to respond. If anyone
has this information I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Kevin Stallard suggested the gascolator would appear to be a better
option as a filter than an inline style. The type of inline filter I'm talking
about is not your prototypical one-inch diameter, one-inch long plastic
see-thru filter we've all seen on our lawnmowers. I talking about something
more like this:

 

 

This filter is 1.75" in diameter and 6.25" long. If the
filtration media was a simple cylinder that size would yield 30+ square inches
of filtration area. Since the media is pleated (much like your typical oil
filter), the filtration area is actually much larger. Maximum flow rate is 150
gph, which is more than three times that required for an IO-550. That suggests
this filter could be two-thirds clogged with crud and still have adequate fuel
flow. And let's not forget there would be one filter for each tank; if one
clogs I can still switch tanks.

 

Additionally, this isn't a throw-one-in-and-hope-it-works scenario.
These filters would be installed in a location making it exceptionally easy to
remove for inspection/servicing--something that would occur following every
engine run up to first flight. My reasoning is that such a test regimen will
reveal any problems of the type mentioned here.

 

Thoughts?

 

--Mark

 

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:39 PM, John B <2thman1 [at] gmail.com

>
wrote:

Like most of you who responded I would not give up the gascolator.
 Have done two annuals since flying and both times have found almost a
teaspoon of white fuzzy stuff. Fiberglass particles I'm virtually certain,
 and I thought I had done a perfect job of cleaning out the tanks before
first flight.

 

John 



Sent from my iPad

 



On Jul 24, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Robert R Pastusek <rpastusek [at] htii.com

>
wrote:

Adam,



My experience is the same as yours. I often found/drained water out of my old
Cherokee tanks, and MANY rental airplanes as well. All were parked outside, and
I think avgas came with a certain amount of “water added” in the
old days… L

 

I’ve never
found any water in the gascolator of my IV-P, so the fuel doesn’t
have/collect any water…or it’s going through the engine and being
vaporized--which I think unlikely. I know the gas caps are MUCH better than the
old Cherokee “stoppers,” and I rarely park the Lancair outside
these days.

 

Like you, I was
meticulous in cleaning/keeping the fuel tanks/lines clean during fabrication
and through flight test. I still collected some small amounts of carbon fuzz,
and a few bits of aluminum in the gascolator during testing, and at the first
two condition inspections. Almost undetectable bits of something for the last
three, not enough to even identify when poured onto a piece of white
paper… So the gascolator/filter is probably not serving a useful function
today…but deleting it would be like throwing away the spare tire in my
car, IMHO… I carry a few critical spare parts in my airplane for the same
reason…

 

Bob

 

From: Lancair Mailing
List [lml [at] lancaironline.net (mailto:)

]
On Behalf Of Adam Molny

Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:30
PM

To: Lancair Mailing List

Subject: [LML] Re: Gascolators and
fuel lines.

 

Hi Mark –

 

Our planes are kept in a heated hangar so
there’s no opportunity for water in the system from rain or condensation.
Back when I was renting Cessnas and Pipers I did occasionally drain water from
the gascolator. Those planes were kept outside.

 

The lowest point in the Legacy fuel system
is the fuel selector valve, but it’s not designed to capture water or
sediment like a gascolator. Your notion that the fuel flows too fast for water
to settle out is difficult to prove or disprove. I always envisioned tiny globs
of water flowing out of the fuel tanks and coalescing into a large glob of
water in the gascolator. The real test would be to pour a cup of water into one
wing tank, run the engine at high power, and see where the water ends up (in
the gascolator, out the tailpipe, or back to the fuel tank). However,
deliberately adding water to the fuel system seems like a bad idea so I’m
not going to try it.

 

I think you are saying you want fuel
filtration but there’s no point in having water separation since a
gascolator won’t work. Can you be 100% certain that you will never get
water in your system? What about flying through rain with a loose fuel cap?
What about being parked outside at Oshkosh for a week? If you do get water in
the system, where will it go? I hate to fall back on the “It’s
always been done that way” argument, but gascolators exist for a reason.

 

For all the Legacy drivers out there: Have
any of you ever discovered water in the gascolator?

 

Good discussion!

-Adam Molny

From: Mark Sletten [mwsletten [at] gmail.com (mailto:)

]

Sent: Thursday,
July 24, 2014 9:15 AM

To: Adam Molny

Subject: Re:
Gascolators and fuel lines.

 

Adam,

 

I wasn't questioning the value of fuel filtration, just whether a
gascolator is the best choice. As I understand it, the gascolator provides a
means to filter the fuel and a low point to catch water that may have gotten
into the fuel system. There are several arguments against using one for the
Legacy.

  1. In the Legacy the gascolator is not the lowest
    point in the fuel delivery path from the tank to the engine, so water in
    the tank should not flow to the gascolator before turning on the pumps. (I
    believe the same is true of the RV. Has your wife ever drained any water
    from her gascolator?)
  1. Given the high fuel flow rate and recirculation
    of unused fuel to the tank, it's unlikely the gascolator will remove any
    water with the engine running.
  1. The gascolator in the engine compartment provides
    a large surface area to add heat to the fuel which can contribute to vapor
    lock. Lancair combats this with a heat shroud and blast air, adding weight
    and complexity.
  1. The gascolator requires numerous fittings and
    breaks in the fuel lines, adding to complexity, weight and the possibility
    of fuel leaks.

Since the gascolator appears to be rather useless at removing water,
it's primary function for the Legacy is filtration. With so many other
filtration options available, it seems illogical to put a gascolator in the
engine compartment.

 

What do you think?

 

--Mark

 

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 7:12 AM, Adam Molny <Adam [at] validationpartners.com

>
wrote:

Mark –

 

The gascolator provides a large reservoir
for capturing water and sediment. It also contains a fine screen with a fairly
large area that acts the final filtration element to keep junk out of your
carburetor or injector(s).

 

Case in point: my wife’s RV6-A
started showing small amounts of debris when sumping the fuel tank drains and
gascolator. We opened up the gascolator and found a small amount of debris at
the bottom of the bowl, and the screen was about 5% blocked. There was no
immediate danger, since the bowl would have to completely fill with debris and
the screen would have to be 100% blocked in order to kill the engine. It turned
out to be bits of fuel tank sealant flaking off.

 

My point here is that the gascolator acts
as a buffer and gives you lots of warning and lots of time to head off any
potential fuel contamination problem.

 

What is the argument for omitting the
gascolator on fuel injected engines?

 

-Adam Molny

Legacy N181AM 255hrs

From: Mark Sletten
[mailto:mwsletten [at] gmail.com

]

Sent: Wednesday,
July 23, 2014 7:35 AM

Subject: Gascolators and fuel
lines.

 

Gang,

 

First: Gascolators. There is a great deal of debate around the web on
the benefits of a gascolator in fuel injected systems. What's the consensus
among Lancairians? 

 

Second: I'm considering making my own engine compartment fuel lines. I
plan to build them up from scratch including the fire sleeve (or not if the
hose is sufficiently fire resistant). Anyone have a recommendation on the type
of hose to use?

 

--Mark

 

 


Image


image001.jpg

Gascolators and fuel lines.

Submitted by Anonymous on

From: bob mackey <n103md [at] yahoo.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: re: Gascolators and fuel lines.
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 07:20:42 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
Message Header


Undecoded Message
Lots of people talk about the value of the gascolator in filtering out debris or catching water. 
But no one has mentioned that the gascolator can also increase risks. The system with a gascolator has one additional hose, two additional fittings, two additional gaskets, and a drain valve. All of those are potential failure points that could increase risk rather than reduce it. A leaky gasket can cause the engine-driven pump to suck air into the system resulting in fuel starvation. The same for an inadvertent drain opening. 

I don't have the numbers or data to support one side of the argument over the other. Anecdotally, I do know pilots that have had fuel system failures in flight that were caused by those last two gascolator defects. 

-bob mackey

Post a Reply

More information about text formats

Filtered HTML

  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Each email address will be obfuscated in a human readable fashion or, if JavaScript is enabled, replaced with a spam resistent clickable link. Email addresses will get the default web form unless specified. If replacement text (a persons name) is required a webform is also required. Separate each part with the "|" pipe symbol. Replace spaces in names with "_".
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <blockquote> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd> <h1> <h2> <h3>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.

Plain text

  • No HTML tags allowed.
  • Each email address will be obfuscated in a human readable fashion or, if JavaScript is enabled, replaced with a spam resistent clickable link. Email addresses will get the default web form unless specified. If replacement text (a persons name) is required a webform is also required. Separate each part with the "|" pipe symbol. Replace spaces in names with "_".
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
Attachments
Files must be less than 512 MB.
Allowed file types: jpg jpeg gif png txt doc docx xls xlsx pdf ppt pptx pps ppsx odt ods odp mp3 mov mp4 m4a m4v mpeg avi ogg oga ogv weba webp webm.