ELECTRONIC IGNITION

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 12/11/1999 - 15:23

Forums:

LML Archive

From:	DON & PAT RYAN <djpryan [at] ruralnet.net>
Subject:	ELECTRONIC IGNITION
Date:	Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:23:43 -0700
To:	LML <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Does anyone know what has happened to Jeff Rose, "ELECTOAIR"?? I have recently tried to contact him and found that the phone number I have has been disconnected. I have his DIS ignition system on an IO360 and find that the strobe lights cause the DIS timing display to bounce severely. There doesn't seem to be any interference with the actual ignition. The manual does indicate that the signal lead to the display should maybe shielded, but since I didn't build this one I don't know whether it is shielded. I wonder now about support for the system. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://www.olsusa.com/Users/Mkaye/maillist.html Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 10/20/2000 - 17:19

From:	DON J RYAN <djpryan [at] ria.net>
Subject:	ELECTRONIC IGNITION
Date:	Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:19:24 -0500
To:	LANCAIR LIST <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Hi Rick I didn't change the wire to the timing display. Jeff indicated that the shielded wire would stop the interference from the strobe. So, I can not confirm that the change would work on 15EG. It was easier to ignore the DIS display when I turn on the strobes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://www.olsusa.com/Users/Mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye [at] olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 01/31/2002 - 14:04

From:	James Frantz <LFrantz [at] compuserve.com>
Sender:	James Frantz <LFrantz [at] compuserve.com>
Subject:	Electronic ignition
Date:	Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:04:22 -0500
To:	INTERNET:lancair.list [at] olsusa.com <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >how much time is left when the alternator fails.< Some time ago in the Lancair Network News we reported about a friend of mine that had dual electronic ignition in his 320. One side was run from the main power distribution system and the other from a small battery isolated by a diode form the aircraft's main distribution system. His main battery blew up due to an overvoltage. The isolation diode shorted out putting the isolation battery in the position of trying to run not only the electronic ignition but also the entire aircraft electrical load. The overvoltage forced a lot of electrical systems like his HSI and engine instruments to fail and the little battery was able to get the aircraft back on the ground without an engine failure but just barely. Isolated dual electronic systems are OK. However, if you plan to charge both batteries from the same alternator, be careful in how you design the isolation. In the above case the isolation diode was designed to handle 30 volts but this was not enough when the 14V alternator ran away. Another problem with isolation diodes is that they ususally fail in the shorted mode. My next project will be to put one electronic ignition on my 360 avoiding the isolation issue altogether. Jim Frantz >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye [at] olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 01/31/2002 - 19:28

From:	Robert Smiley <rsmiley [at] tscnet.com>
Subject:	Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:28:18 -0700
To:	<lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> I second the motion that Jim Frantz states. I prefer the redancy of both a magneto and an electronic system. The mags run on like the proverbial bunny after battery life and the electronic system on one set of mage will give you the benefits of improved performance, ignition advance and cleaner burn. Bob Smiley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye [at] olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 02/01/2002 - 04:33

From:	Steve & Claudette Colwell <colwell [at] innercite.com>
Subject:	Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:33:20 -0800
To:	<lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>
Cc:	George Braly <gwbraly [at] gami.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> I have been told running one electronic ignition and one magneto has a problem . The aftermarket electronic ignition, on a non turbo installation, has more timing advance to optimize both power and economy by lighting the mixture earlier as altitude is increased. The problem is, the later timed mag tries to fire as the pressure is rising from the earlier firing of the electronic ignition. This pressure rise will prevent the plug from firing and cause the coil in the mag to short. (Most of us have seen the old spark plug testers that would fail the wide gapped or dirty plug as the pressure was increased) The coil on the mag dies about 300 hours after the electronic ignition is installed. I have heard this from several people who experienced it. I also understand there is a significant improvement in dual electronic ignitions since the combustion chambers of our dual plug aircraft engines were designed to have both plugs fire at the same time. Since I plan an all electric airplane (no vacuum system), a dual buss/alternator/battery will be my redundancy. I am interested in the Prism Electronic Ignition, maybe George Braly will give us some details. Is the advance curve tailored to the leaning procedure for GAMI injectors? Steve Colwell Legacy 2K Placerville,CA (530) 621-3408 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye [at] olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 02/01/2002 - 14:11

From:	Robert Smiley <rsmiley [at] tscnet.com>
Subject:	Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Fri, 1 Feb 2002 07:11:36 -0700
To:	<lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Steve, Your reasoning appears logical. As a kid growing up in a garage, service station environment, I cleaned many a plug and tested them in a spark plug cleaner and observed the sparks as well. You may be correct. Bob Smiley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye [at] olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 02/02/2002 - 06:53

From:	Denis Conkey <dconkey [at] itcreators.com>
Subject:	Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Fri, 1 Feb 2002 22:53:59 -0800
To:	<lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > I have been told running one electronic ignition and one magneto has a > problem . The aftermarket electronic ignition, on a non turbo installation, > has more timing advance to optimize both power and economy by lighting the > mixture earlier as altitude is increased. The problem is, the later timed > mag tries to fire as the pressure is rising from the earlier firing of the > electronic ignition. This pressure rise will prevent the plug from firing > and cause the coil in the mag to short. (Most of us have seen the old spark > plug testers that would fail the wide gapped or dirty plug as the pressure > was increased) The coil on the mag dies about 300 hours after the > electronic ignition is installed. I have heard this from several people who > experienced it. My partner and I have been running one electronic ignition and one mag for over 500 hours and have experienced no problem to date with the Mag as you describe above. The plugs seem to fire fine as we do a Mag check on each flight. When turning off the electronic ignition, the typical Mag drop results. When turning off the mag the drop is much less and barely noticeable. Denis N235WC (IO-320) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye [at] olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 02/02/2002 - 19:01

From:	Larry Henney <lhenney [at] dellepro.com>
Subject:	Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Sat, 2 Feb 2002 13:01:58 -0600
To:	<lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > When turning off the mag the drop is much less and barely > noticeable. It should be noted that even with dual electronic ignition a different drop on the ignition check occurs when the timing is slightly off. I was amazed to see this. My left ignition is currently firing a couple degrees late. It (the left) is always first to foul if I fail to lean on the ground. This seems to emphasize that the second fired plugs (mag or elect) are doing nothing and great care should be taken to match the timing. It could also be a misconstruing sales pitch. Jim's point regarding separation of charging sources for dual batteries is also very important. One elegant charging solution I found includes using my back up battery (3 amp gel cel) to back up my engine analyzer clock. It is charged by my engine analyzer which is 5 amp circuit protected. Larry Henney N360LH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye [at] olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 02/02/2002 - 23:29

From:	George Braly <gwbraly [at] gami.com>
Subject:	RE: Electronic ignition
Date:	Sat, 2 Feb 2002 17:29:33 -0600
To:	'lancair.list [at] olsusa.com' <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>Since I plan an all electric airplane (no vacuum system), a dual buss/alternator/battery will be my redundancy. I am interested in the Prism Electronic Ignition, maybe George Braly will give us some details. Is the advance curve tailored to the leaning procedure for GAMI injectors? Steve Colwell Legacy 2K Placerville,CA (530) 621-3408 << Steve, One of the interesting features of the PRISM system is that it really does not have anything that is comparable to the traditional automotive world's "advance curve". If will advance or retard the timing as required in order to directly optimize the magnitude and interval (after TDC) of the combustion pressure event in order to obtain maximum torque. And for a given MP, RPM, and F/A ratio, the optimization continues to take place and change the spark advance, as a function of the type of fuel coming from the tanks. The really remarkable thing about all of this is that it can be done with a single sensor. We do this demonstration rather routinely. Set up an engine at cruise power, and then switch the fuel from 100LL, to unleaded AVGAS, to 87octane MOgas, and back again, without making any changes in MP or RPM or Mixture control. It is rather startling to see the changes that take place in the spark timing as the fuels change over and "clean up" in the fuel line from the external fuel valve servo box to the engine. Regards, George >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye [at] olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 02/02/2002 - 23:44

From:	Ross W. Colebrook <rossann [at] mindspring.com>
Subject:	Electronic ignition
Date:	Sat, 2 Feb 2002 16:44:16 -0700
To:	Lancair List <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> The pros and cons of magnetos versus battery powered ignition has been going on for some time. I recall flying behind a Jacobs radial almost 60 years ago that had one magneto and one battery powered coil and distributor. The battery powered system ran the engine better but the magneto would get you home when the generator failed. I think the safest and best trade is still one magneto and one electronic system. They are completely separate and the trip home is not time limited. Ross W. Colebrook N7828 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye [at] olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 02/04/2002 - 12:39

From:	Paul Kapcin <pkapcin [at] olsusa.com>
Subject:	Electronic ignition
Date:	Mon, 04 Feb 2002 07:39:50 -0500
To:	<lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Mailed from:Sky2high [at] aol.com

> I think the safest and best trade is still one magneto and one electronic system.

Ross, et al -

How about 2 magnetos and a dual electronic ignition. The Lasar (Unison)

System can use your installed harness with its 2 new mags wired to their

electronic ignition box. Any failure of any part of the electronic ignition

(including total electric system failure), causes a reversion to using both mags as mags. The usual pre-flight "mag test" is just that,the electronics are turned off for 20 seconds while the mags are function tested. Timing advance is dependent on RPM and Manifold Pressure. If you put the power breaker in the cockpit, you can turn off the electronic ignition in flightjust for the fun of it.A single electronic ignition is a hopeless arrangement since the mag is not advanced whilst the electronic ignition should be --figure what that flame front looks like.

Scott Krueger

LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html

LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair

Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore

assist with the management of the LML.

Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye [at] olsusa.com.

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 02/06/2002 - 13:32

From:	Marvin Kaye <marvkaye [at] olsusa.com>
Subject:	Electronic ignition
Date:	Wed, 06 Feb 2002 08:32:13 -0500
To:	<lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Posted for ian.crowe [at] sympatico.ca:

I have an IO360 with the combined dual magnetos and would very much like to turn it over to full electronic ignition. Full makes the most sense in this situation I believe as I cannot remove one magneto only.

Light Speed have a system that appears to fit and it would appear sensible to use the direct crank triggering and keep the magneto drive for a possible small alternator, later. A separate isolated battery would provde back up. In all the discussions on electronic ignition the question of back up is well to the fore as it should be. However I note from the Light Speed specifications that current draw for a 4 cylinder engine is 1.2amps at 13.8volts. This amperage would increase as standby battery voltage falls if it is not being charged. If we consider a draw of 2.5amps at 6.9 volts which is still above the minimum operating voltage of the ignition system (4volts) then a battery of 10AH capacity would give a theoretical 4 hours with two hours being well within its capacity. Plenty of time to find an airport and even enough power for limited use of radios and nav.

So I have three questions at least,

1. Is my theory and calculation wrong?

2. Why are people quoting pucker up experiences when using a standby battery to get home after the main system failed? Are their batteries too small? Do their electronic ignition systems draw a lot more power than the Light Speed I have quoted?

3. What do other users of electronic ignition recommend as a system/manufacturer.

Ian Crowe

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 02/06/2002 - 16:23

From:	<Sky2high [at] aol.com>
Subject:	Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:23:47 EST
To:	<lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Ian, Your calculations are not wrong (Q#1). The choice of any system requires the balancing of compromises to finally satisfy your confidence level, overall costs, installation and operational simplicity, etc. I have two friends that use pure dual electronic ignitions and I can relate some of their experiences -- none of which were particularly "puckering" (Q#2). Neither has a backup battery or alternator. One uses auto plugs which appear to work well. One uses the mag locations to drive crankshaft position sensors and fires all top plugs from one "side" and the bottom plugs from the other side (making cylinder related problem diagnosis very easy). The other uses a Hall effect crank sensor. Both type of position sensors have had minor problems. Both have had ignition wire problems. One is considering adding the backup-battery system and the other is considering adding the B&C secondary alternator. The Unison Lasar system (http://www.unisonindustries.com/products/ignition.html) (Q#3) has satisfied all of my requirements: 1. Results that warrant cost: Quick starts (hot or cold), increased power (noted by sprightly takeoff run, energetic climbs, improved cruise) and improved fuel usage. 2. Backup/Confidence: Simply reverts to familiar magneto operation if there is any failure in the electronic system, including loss of electrical power. Mags are checked before flight in the usual fashion. A panel light indicates backup magnetos are operating. 3. Installation simplicity: Replace mags (kept original harness and plugs), mount controller box, wire panel light and power, connect to manifold pressure, time mags, start engine and go (after making log book entry). Scott Krueger N92EX >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye [at] olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 02/07/2002 - 16:00

From:	Lorn H. Olsen <lorn [at] dynacomm.ws>
Subject:	Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:00:49 -0500
To:	<lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:23:47 EST From: Sky2high [at] aol.com Ian, . . The Unison Lasar system (http://www.unisonindustries.com/products/ignition.html) (Q#3) has satisfied all of my requirements: . . Scott Krueger N92EX

I looked at the Wag-Aero catalog. This is a recommended dealer. I also looked at Aircraft Spruce. Couldn't find the Lasar System there either. Where did you buy your system? How much did it cost? Could you buy it without the new mags?

--

Lorn H. 'Feathers' Olsen, DynaComm, Corp.

248-478-4301, lorn [at] dynacomm.ws (mailto:)

LNC2, O-320, N31161, Y47, SE Michigan

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 02/07/2002 - 18:21

From:	<Sky2high [at] aol.com>
Subject:	Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Thu, 7 Feb 2002 13:21:05 EST
To:	<lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Lorn, Unison was very recently bought by GE for its turbine ignition technology. I bought mine in October from aircraft spruce who then got it thru Aviall. I believe Unison sells the Lasar system directly now. Go to the Unison ignition website for #s: http://www.unisonindustries.com/ No, you must use their new mags which are connected to the controller. Scott Krueger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye [at] olsusa.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 02/11/2002 - 06:45

From:	Tom McReynolds <tomkitty [at] pacbell.net>
Subject:	Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Sun, 10 Feb 2002 22:45:19 -0800
To:	<lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hi George,

Thanks for the info on Prism. Do you think anyone will be updating the Gami web page

with some Prism details? I don't think it's changed from its current checklist

of features in more than a year. I would be nice to have some more substantial info, like

a white paper or something similar. It would also be awesome to get an idea when the system

will be available.

Thanks!

-Tom

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 01/12/2004 - 14:53

From:	<CavittP [at] aol.com>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Electronic Ignition
Date:	Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:53:48 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

I have a mag that's due for overhaul and would rather spend the dough on a suitable electronic replacement. Can anyone out there recommend an "excellent" electronic ignition replacement for a magneto?

Thanks!

Pete Cavitt - N320PL

619-701-0784

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 01/12/2004 - 17:48

From:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Electronic Ignition
Date:	Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:48:54 -0500
To:	<lml>

Posted for "Farnsworth" <farnsworth [at] charter.net>: Pete, I would recommend this. I am having one magneto and one Lightspeed Plasma III CDI electronic ignition installed on the TSIO-550 that Performance Aero Engines is building for my Legacy. http://www.lightspeedengineering.com/ Regards, Lynn Farnsworth L2K#235

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 01/12/2004 - 17:50

From:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Electronic Ignition
Date:	Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:50:05 -0500
To:	<lml>

Posted for Sky2high [at] aol.com:

"excellent" electronic ignition

http://www.lsecorp.com/

Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 12/18/2004 - 23:15

From:	Farnsworth <farnsworth [at] charter.net>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	RE: [LML] Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:15:26 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Skip, Where did you put control box for the Light Speed Ignition? Lynn Farnsworth Super Legacy #235 TSIO550

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 12/18/2004 - 23:34

From:	Skip Slater <skipslater [at] earthlink.net>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:34:55 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Lynn, I ended up putting my control box on my firewall. Klause prefers it go inside, but it would have been too hard with all the wires and MAP hose that has to go to the engine. I mounted the box on a piece of aluminum and then put an aluminum shroud over it so it's somewhat protected from dust and any oil drips. Skip

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 12/19/2004 - 00:05

From:	Farnsworth <farnsworth [at] charter.net>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	RE: [LML] Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Sat, 18 Dec 2004 19:05:34 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Skip, The reason I asked is because I had one mag and one Light Speed. I now have two mags. Lee Behel had Light Speed ignition on his Legacy for a while. He started having problems and put mags back on. He had his control boxes on the engine side of the firewall too. My understanding is that the heat from the engine did bad things to the control boxes. I was going to mount the control box on the cockpit side of the firewall, but didn't have enough room (I had to recess the center part of the firewall to accommodate the TSIO-550). Jon Hadlich (from Lancair) installed my wiring. He didn't want to put the control box anywhere near any system that might be affected by the high voltage of the control box. As a result I'm back to two mags. I'm disappointed. I was hoping you had found some magic place where the control box could live without too much heat or adversely affecting my "electric airplane". First flight the last half of next month (Jan 2005). I think I'm really there this time!!!!!!! Lynn Farnsworth Super Legacy #235 TSIO-550 Lynn, I ended up putting my control box on my firewall. Klause prefers it go inside, but it would have been too hard with all the wires and MAP hose that has to go to the engine. I mounted the box on a piece of aluminum and then put an aluminum shroud over it so it's somewhat protected from dust and any oil drips. Skip -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/lml/

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 12/19/2004 - 00:40

From:	<Sky2high [at] aol.com>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Sat, 18 Dec 2004 19:40:51 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

In a message dated 12/18/2004 6:05:45 P.M. Central Standard Time,
farnsworth [at] charter.net writes:

Lee
Behel had Light Speed ignition on his Legacy for a while. He started
having
problems and put mags back on. He had his control boxes on the engine
side
of the firewall too. My understanding is that the heat from the engine
did
bad things to the control boxes.

Lynn, Skip, Et Al,

Hmmmmm, I have been moving towards the dual Lightspeeds but I don't
want to install the controllers under my seats. I was considering mounting
them on the firewall with aluminum shields and blast tubes. This would be
a conversion from LASAR.

I would never go back to ordinary mags.

Have you all been watching P-Mags?

http://www.emagair.com/

Hmmmmm.....

Scott Krueger
AKA Grayhawk
N92EX IO320 Aurora, IL (KARR)

Some Assembly Required

Using Common Hand Tools.

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 12/19/2004 - 01:54

From:	Skip Slater <skipslater [at] earthlink.net>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:54:05 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Lynn, I've had zero problems with my Lightspeed unit other than a broken connector to one of the coils (think we crimped it too tight and the wire separated- one minute to fix) and a cracked sparkplug insulator. Don't know if the aluminum shield I put over it has any effect, but I haven't heard of anyone else having trouble with these things. Also, the unit is well insulated; I have no EMI problems and unlike the first electronic unit I had (an Electroair which was nothing but trouble) it doesn't even cause the slightest blip on my Strikefinder. Good luck with your first flight, Skip

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 12/19/2004 - 03:53

From:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Sat, 18 Dec 2004 22:53:33 -0500
To:	<lml>

Posted for "Farnsworth" <farnsworth [at] charter.net>: Scott, I haven't followed P-Mag. Maybe that is something that might work. However I didn't see anything that indicates it will work on a turbocharged engine like a TSIO-550. I definitely want electronic ignition. I was hoping Continental's FADEC would be available. But, every time I talked to someone about it, I never got any "warm and fuzzys", just the opposite. I thought I had found the solution with Light Speed, but you know the problems I had with the installation. I talked to GAMI about PRISM, but it is not available and if it ever is, it will be quite expensive. The "Supplenator", which is required for the PRISM, it $3,500 by itself. Lynn

http://www.emagair.com/ "

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 12/20/2004 - 01:25

From:	Paul Bricker <pbricker [at] earthlink.net>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:25:30 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Lynn, I've gone with dual Light Speed Laser III ignitions on my Super ES. I'm mounting them in the cabin side of the firewall on the copilot side, above the horizontal shelf. One mounts vertically to the firewall, and the second is above the first on standoffs. I had to plumb the manifold pressure into the cabin for the sensor anyway so this was not a concern. The wires from the crank sensors I'm running through the firewall on a multipin connector, and I mounted 6 BNC bulkhead feedthru connectors in the firewall. These are for the connection to the coils which is made using RG-400 coaxial cables. I do have dual batteries and alternators, without which I would not go dual electronic ignition. The big drawback compared to a magneto is the need for DC power to run them. I have split the systems between the two buses. I second the concerns expressed on the need to install the system properly. I had the ignition system installed by Performance Engines when they built the engine, and it was tested and timed before the engine was delivered. Paul Bricker N63PB

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 12/20/2004 - 01:25

From:	<PTACKABURY [at] aol.com>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:25:30 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Lynn: I have a dual Light Speed Ignition set up on my LIV and put the
control boxes on the back side of the firewall in front of the rudder
pedals--one on each side of the tunnel. They really don't require much
room as they are quite thin. Now I realize my IV is different than your
Super Legacy, but having flown with Light Speed ignitions for about 15 years (on
a LongEZ, the Lancair IV is scheduled for a first flight sometime this spring,
hopefully...), I think it is worth the effort to find a way to squeeze them
in--and outside of the engine compartment is best. regards, paul

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 12/20/2004 - 05:27

From:	Dan O'Brien <danobrien [at] cox.net>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:27:30 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

For us novice engine guys, could someone offer a brief dissertation on the benefits of electronic ignition? Thanks.

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 12/20/2004 - 05:27

From:	Farnsworth <farnsworth [at] charter.net>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	RE: [LML] Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:27:30 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Paul,

Do you know what kind of electronic
emissions are/might be generated by the control box that might harm/
interfere with other electronic equipment?

Maybe you could ask Klaus?

I really want it but Andy says there is no
room behind the instrument panel.

Lynn: I have a dual Light Speed Ignition set up on my LIV and put
the control boxes on the back side of the firewall in front of the rudder
pedals--one on each side of the tunnel. They really don't require much
room as they are quite thin. Now I realize my IV is different than your
Super Legacy, but having flown with Light Speed ignitions for about 15 years
(on a LongEZ, the Lancair IV is scheduled for a first flight sometime this
spring, hopefully...), I think it is worth the effort to find a way to squeeze
them in--and outside of the engine compartment is best. regards, paul

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 12/20/2004 - 14:24

From:	<Sky2high [at] aol.com>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:24:44 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

In a message dated 12/19/2004 11:28:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
danobrien [at] cox.net writes:

For us
novice engine guys, could someone offer a brief dissertation on the

benefits of electronic ignition?Â
Thanks.

Try These:

http://www.gami.com/frames.htm

Features (PRISM):
â¢Optimized Spark Timing to
achieve maximum brake torque
â¢Simple, fewer moving parts, fiber optic
design
â¢Increased horsepower at all power settings
â¢Smoother engine
operation- reduces coefficient of variation of combustion- even on lean
mixtures
â¢More efficient engine operation-CDI produces larger spark at
optimized time BTDC
â¢Replaces both magnetos- no overhaul required prior to
TBO
â¢Fully redundant design- proven electronic durability with quad redundant
ignition
â¢Includes GAMI's Supplenatorâ¢
Supplemental Alternator- back-up power to primary alternator and battery and
GAMI's PDUâ¢
Panel Display Unit
â¢Automatic detection/prevention of detonation

â¢Maintains lower peak cylinder pressures- reduced loads on power train
components, longer engine life
â¢Allows for the future use of lower octane,
unleaded fuels. This is the only system on the millennial horizon that is
inherently compatible with lower octane, unleaded fuels.
â¢ChampionÂ® ignition
components (spark plugs, wires, coils)
â¢Optional panel display of actual
real-time horsepower and torque
â¢Optional digital tachometer
â¢Optional
extensive on-board engine diagnostic capability
â¢Improved fuel economy- lower
BSFCs than previously possible
â¢Significantly lower EGTs/TITs for reduced
exhaust system maintenance
FAA STC certification expected
soon!

http://www.unisonindustries.com/products/lasar_performance_gains/lasar_perform_gains_menu.html

LasarÂ® Performance Gains
(for
Fixed-Pitch Propeller Airplanes)

Section One: Introduction

Section Two: General information

Section Three: Easier engine starting

Section Four: Engine run-up

Section Five: Faster rate-of-climb

Section Six: Reduced fuel consumption (full rich
mixture)

Section Seven: Reduced fuel consumption (best economy
mixture)

Section Eight: Increased power mixture (best power
mixture)

Section Nine: Summary

LASARÂ® Installation Information

http://www.emagair.com/

E-Mag is a next-generation electronic
ignition, designed to serve as an upgrade or replacement for traditional
aircraft engine magnetos.Â The idea behind a next-generation "anything" is
that it 1) builds on what came before, and 2) gives more of what the customer
wants. Â

What Does The Customer Want?Â

Reliability, performance, economy, and convenience is a short and familiar
list.Â The challenge for designers is getting all these features into a
single package.Â It's rare when a single modification can:

Benefit so many areas (reliability, performance, economy, convenience).
Require so little investment.
Require so little time.Â Â

What Came Before?Â

Automobiles have used electronic ignitions for decades.Â Most of us have
experienced worn-out car tires, batteries, brakes, etc.Â But have you ever
worn out you car's electronic ignition?Â Likely not.Â Alternatively,
when did you last pull your mags for inspection/repair/replacement?Â How
many hours until your next mag appointment?Â Even so, the automotive
analogy has its limits. Auto ignitions evolved to serve different types of
engines.Â Â Fortunately, aircraft ignitions are undergoing a similar
evolution, one that's oriented to their environment and engine-specific
needs.Â Â

The basic advantages of electronic ignition are very straight forward, and
"first-generation" aircraft ignitions perform them well.Â Â

Stronger Spark - Electronic ignitions deliver greater energy,
allowing spark plug gaps to be set much wider.Â The result is a hotter,
longer length, and longer duration spark.Â Â Â Â
Variable Timing -Â Variable spark timing improves efficiency
over a wider range of operating speeds and conditions. Smoother idle,
efficient cruise, etc.
Multi-Strike Start - High-energy multi-strike start mode helps
overcome a variety of start-up challenges (cold engine, low battery, poor
mixture, oily plugs, etc.).Â Â
Fewer Moving Parts - Parts that donât exist don't wear out.Â

http://www.lsecorp.com/Products/IgnitionIII.htm

PLASMA III
CAPACITIVE DISCHARGE
IGNITION SYSTEM

Light
Speed Engineering has introduced a new ignition system to its line of
products.Â The new Plasma III
Capacitor Discharge System is the latest high performance ignition for all 4-cyl
and 6-cyl aircraft engines.Â Its
long duration spark and optimized timing curve makes more horsepower and
improves fuel efficiency- at all altitudes. Other benefits include quick starts,
reduced maintenance, light weight, lower EGTâs and up to 20% more range.Â As with all LSE ignitions, RPM and
manifold pressure inputs are used for our proprietary timing curves. The Plasma
III is also capable of displaying the current timing advance, manifold pressure
and rpm on an optional lightweight LCD display.

Scott Krueger
AKA Grayhawk
N92EX IO320 Aurora, IL (KARR)

Some Assembly Required

Using Common Hand Tools.

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 12/20/2004 - 17:21

From:	<PTACKABURY [at] aol.com>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:21:30 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Lynn again: Re Light Speed EI EMI: I talked to Klaus and he sez
the Plasma IIIs (the ones you want to use on a turbo 550; the ones I am using)
have had no EMI problems when wired correctly. They can be wired
incorrectly by not properly connecting the shielding on the power wires to
provide continuity, but when done right the EI can be operated even with storm
scopes which are reputed to be very sensitive to EMI. He recommends
about six inches between his control box(s) and any other electronic
devices--but here too builders have mounted the box(s) on the radio stack and
not had problems. So I would think an aft firewall position would be no
problem for your Chelton, stack or panel--at least I hope not 'cause that
is the way mine is built! Any remaining tech questions, give Klaus a call
(best after 9am pacific so he has had time for a couple cups of tea).
don't settle, paul

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 12/20/2004 - 17:21

From:	<PTACKABURY [at] aol.com>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:21:39 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Regards Light Speed EMI: I will check with the Klausinator and be
back in touch. paul

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 12/20/2004 - 23:53

From:	Alain NOIREAUX <alainoireaux [at] club-internet.fr>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Mon, 20 Dec 2004 18:53:41 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Dan, go to the Light Speed Engineering web site and read their literature. www.lightspeedengineering.com and see what is writen on LML about that,it is a lot of things. Alain NOIREAUX L 320 F-PSDV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien [at] cox.net> To: "Lancair Mailing List" <lml [at] lancaironline.net> Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 6:27 AM Subject: [LML] Re: Electronic Ignition > For us novice engine guys, could someone offer a brief dissertation on the > benefits of electronic ignition? Thanks. > > > -- > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/lml/ >

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 12/21/2004 - 09:45

From:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 2004 04:45:50 -0500
To:	<lml>

Posted for "Gerard O Connell" <goconnell [at] dodo.com.au>: Paul, You mention that DC is required for the electronic ignition. If an alternator circuit breaker popped or was left popped by a mechanic and you failed to notice does this mean your engine will quit when you lose battery DC? This has happened to me (I'm still on magnetos) and I failed to notice until the radios quit beacuse the ammeter (centre zero) didn't give much indication of a discharge. -- Gerard O Connell Melbourne, Australia VH-LPD (LNC2) """ I do have dual batteries and alternators, without which I would not go dual electronic ignition. The big drawback compared to a magneto is the need for DC power to run them. I have split the systems between the two buses. """

Electronic ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 12/21/2004 - 14:17

From:	Paul Bricker <pbricker [at] earthlink.net>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic ignition
Date:	Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:17:24 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Yes, that is true, but only if you are running from a single power source. This is true of my whole AC, as it is all electric with no vacuum system. Part of my background as an engineer was development of missile tracking and Range Safety systems for the Navy testing of submarine launched ballistic missile. The systems we designed had two critical characteristics. 1. No single point failure could jeopardize the mission, property or life, and 2. No critical failure could go un-monitored. If you power the ignition systems from two independent power sources (alternator and batteries sets), size them to run your critical minimum power need and monitor the health of these sources you should be business. I've a 60A and 20A alternator, each driving independent 28vdc batteries and buses, with voltage/current monitors with alarms on each bus. I have redundant minimum IFR instrumentation split between the buses. My minimum "fly to an airport in hard IFR" load I calculate at 17.4A, which I can source with a worst case single point failure. When I test fly the AC I'll test the power system, but I believe I sufficiently redundant and monitored to cover the 'possible" situations. (remember, nothing is 100%.) BTW- one thing I do not have is an Avionics Master. It is a designed in single point failure. Just turn the units on/off individually. Paul Bricker N63PB

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 03/09/2005 - 18:50

From:	<CavittP [at] aol.com>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Electronic Ignition
Date:	Wed, 09 Mar 2005 13:50:23 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

I recently replaced my left mag with a Lightspeed Engineering electronic
unit. What a difference! Anyone having problems with a mag sould
look into it.

Pete Cavitt - N320PL

619-701-0784

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 03/11/2005 - 00:50

From:	<CavittP [at] aol.com>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Electronic Ignition
Date:	Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:50:31 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Forgot to mention in my previous posting some of the benefits of my
Lightspeed Engineering Plasma III electronic ignition which replaced a Bendix
mag:

Quicker starting...

Smoother idle...

Higher static RPM by 50...

Better takeoff & climb performance - especially out of higher density
altitude airports (SEZ & FLG for example)...

Leaner mixture in climb and cruise...

No fixed timing - is automatically variable between 20 to 40
degrees...

No points to wear out and no negative implications of high altitude flight
(at least up to17,500')... I suspect this type ignition system that even
the guys who fly up into the mid-to high 20's that their problems might be over
as well...

With the extreme rain we've had here in Southern California lately, I've
had occation to fly in moderate to heavy rain with no problems...

Pete Cavitt - N320PL

L-235/320 Kit No.077

7.5 years & 1,200 hours

619-701-0784

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 03/11/2005 - 00:52

From:	Gerard O Connell <goconnell [at] dodo.com.au>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Electronic Ignition
Date:	Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:52:29 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Hi Pete, I've only flown behind mags..can you enlighten me a little about
electronic ignition. What are the immediate benefits? Is the Bendix unit
replaced and therefore does it solve problems with a "stuck" Bendix o
starting. What happens if you're battery dies? Do you still have a
mag?

Thanks mate,

--
Gerard O Connell
Melbourne,
Australia
VH-LPD (LNC2)

I recently replaced my left mag with a Lightspeed Engineering
electronic unit. What a difference! Anyone having problems with
a mag sould look into it.

Pete Cavitt - N320PL

619-701-0784

________________________________________________

Message
sent using Dodo Internet Webmail Server

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 03/11/2005 - 23:42

From:	<CavittP [at] aol.com>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Fri, 11 Mar 2005 18:42:35 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

G'day Gerard...

Some of the benefits of my Lightspeed Engineering Plasma III electronic
ignition which replaced a Bendix mag:

Quicker starting...

Smoother idle...

Higher static RPM by 50...

Better takeoff & climb performance - especially out of higher density
altitude airports (SEZ & FLG for example)...

Leaner mixture in climb and cruise...

No fixed timing - is automatically variable between 20 to 40
degrees...

With the extreme rain we've had here in Southern California lately, I've
had occation to fly in moderate to heavy rain with no problems...

I would be reluctant to replace both mags with electronic units. It's
reassuring to know the mag is there if one has a complete electrical
failure...

Pete Cavitt - N320PL

L-235/320 Kit No.077

7.5 years & 1,200 hours

619-701-0784

In a message dated 3/10/2005 4:53:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
goconnell [at] dodo.com.au writes:

Hi Pete,
I've only flown behind mags..can you enlighten me a little about electronic
ignition. What are the immediate benefits? Is the Bendix unit replaced and
therefore does it solve problems with a "stuck" Bendix o starting. What
happens if you're battery dies? Do you still have a mag?

Thanks
mate,

--
Gerard O Connell
Melbourne, Australia
VH-LPD
(LNC2)

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 03/12/2005 - 03:39

From:	Paul Nafziger <naf [at] britevalley.com>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Electronic Ignition
Date:	Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:39:57 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Pete,

How hard was it to install?

Naf

LNC2 N7PN

CavittP [at] aol.com

wrote:

//midlist-778903 [at] logan.com" rel="noopener" type="cite">

Forgot to mention in my previous posting some of the benefits of
my Lightspeed Engineering Plasma III electronic ignition which replaced
a Bendix mag:

Quicker starting...

Smoother idle...

Higher static RPM by 50...

Better takeoff & climb performance - especially out of
higher density altitude airports (SEZ & FLG for example)...

Leaner mixture in climb and cruise...

No fixed timing - is automatically variable between 20 to 40
degrees...

No points to wear out and no negative implications of high
altitude flight (at least up to17,500')... I suspect this type
ignition system that even the guys who fly up into the mid-to high 20's
that their problems might be over as well...

With the extreme rain we've had here in Southern California
lately, I've had occation to fly in moderate to heavy rain with no
problems...

Pete Cavitt - N320PL

L-235/320 Kit No.077

7.5 years & 1,200 hours

619-701-0784

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 03/12/2005 - 07:42

From:	<CavittP [at] aol.com>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Sat, 12 Mar 2005 02:42:36 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Naf:

Took a day to do the whole job.

Pete Cavitt - N320PL

619-701-0784

In a message dated 3/11/2005 7:40:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
naf [at] britevalley.com writes:

Pete,

How hard was it to install?

Naf
LNC2
N7PN

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 03/12/2005 - 07:43

From:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Sat, 12 Mar 2005 02:43:38 -0500
To:	<lml>

Posted for Alain NOIREAUX <alainoireaux [at] club-internet.fr>: To Gerard O'Connell Gerard,go to "lightspeedengineering.com" and read,then think.... I am going to install a double LSE Plus II ignition on my IO-320,with Hall Effect sensors and small alternator in place of the vacuum pump,for redundancy. Have a nice day. Alain NOIREAUX L-320 F-PSDV

    Hi Pete, I've only flown behind mags..can you enlighten me a

    little about electronic ignition. What are the immediate benefits?

    Is the Bendix unit replaced and therefore does it solve problems

    with a "stuck" Bendix o starting. What happens if you're battery

    dies? Do you still have a mag?

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 03/12/2005 - 13:34

From:	<lhenney [at] attg.net>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	re:[LML] Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Sat, 12 Mar 2005 08:34:20 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Alan, I think your point is missed. I had my engine built from scratch with dual LSE ign. The cost differential over mags was a couple hundred bucks. The airplane has one alternator, one main battery, and a 1 lb 3 amp backup battery for redundancy. The backup battery which I replace every 2 years for $22 can run both ignition far in excess of my header tank fuel volume. Thus the limiting factor would be about 11 gallons of fuel (yes, I'll top it off with the main battery). Therefore, at normal cruise speeds of 185 kts TAS at 8 gph, supposing my alternator and main battery have failed, I have about 260 nm range before fuel starvation prevents continued flight. Yes, I have tested this and an old 3 amp backup battery will outlast the header tank. BTW, if I really get in a pinch, I'll slow to 125 kts TAS @ 4 GPH and only have about 360 nm range (bladder limited- talk to Paul Lipps for this solution). So..... Lets suppose I do loose my (automotive) alternator (never have in 660 hrs). ((ok, ok - I did throw the alternator belt at last years Airventure Cup - This did not preclude a fuel stop, two engine starts, and an additional leg to Osh without an alternator)). Lest we digress.....If I loose my automotive alternator, then I'll operate on my main battery. Depending on the range to my destination I may turn off my lights and lower the gear by freefall (yes, I test the gear free fall every 30 days). If by some unfortunate set of circumstances I fly to the point of main battery exhaustion (somewhere around 4 Volts and several hundred miles later), I'll switch to my backup battery and only have 360 additional nm miles to play with. Did I mention that I can turn off one of the two ignitions and then be running on about 1.5 amps? The math exceeds me, but suffice it to say that there will again be extra amps to get somewhere. Klaus' ignition is PHENOMENAL! They are well worth every dime spent. The decreased fuel flow in cruise will cover their cost in about 300 hrs. You'd have to put your own value on the race trophys. I've got a heap which my sons and I cherish. It is such a chuckle to me to see guys mixing 40's technology with late 80's technology (mags with Lancairs). It would seem that if one wants more and more redundancy to the point of excess one should fly the mighty Cessna. Gotta be safe, gotta be safe, gotta be safe,......maybe I should go get two more batteries and another alternator,..... gotta be safe! What was your point again? Larry Henney N360LH PS: I have even had to work on my LSE ignition on a couple occasions and still testify that they are the greatest! When you call LSE, you get a real person. If it isn't Klaus himself, it's the most delightful phone voice with whom you could ever be on hold (Jenny). On one occasion Klaus was enroute to Oshkosh from Santa Paulo and diverted through Broken Bow Oklahoma to assist in my repair (and no, he didn't need any fuel). Draw a line on the chart and see how committed he is to his business. Klaus has been 16 years in building a fantastic company and improving his products daily. Gentleman, I would recommend you run (don't walk) to LSE and buy the new pickup (Flywheel Hall affect) and dual systems and Run Like the Wind Bullseye!

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 03/13/2005 - 14:36

From:	Gary Casey <glcasey [at] adelphia.net>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	RE: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Sun, 13 Mar 2005 09:36:18 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

<<The decreased fuel flow in cruise will cover their cost in about 300 hrs.>> I would certainly like to see real data on this, for both single electronic and dual electronic systems. How much BSFC improvement is there to be had by advancing only one of the sparks? Both of the sparks? I'm thinking of manifold pressures of 20 inches or lower. Has anyone done a real dyno test to get this data? How about a timing sweep under these conditions? Gary Casey

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 03/13/2005 - 18:07

From:	<Sky2high [at] aol.com>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Sun, 13 Mar 2005 13:07:35 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

In a message dated 3/13/2005 8:38:30 A.M. Central Standard Time,
glcasey [at] adelphia.net writes:

<<The decreased fuel flow in cruise will cover their cost in
about 300
hrs.>>

I would certainly like to see real data on
this, for both single electronic
and dual electronic systems. How
much BSFC improvement is there to be had
by advancing only one of the
sparks? Both of the sparks? I'm thinking of
manifold pressures
of 20 inches or lower. Has anyone done a real dyno test
to get this
data? How about a timing sweep under these
conditions?

Gary,

Let's see, saving .66 gph for the same performance over 300
hours would use 200 gallons less fuel and, @ $3/gal that is a
savings of merely $600. Of course, if you used the gph savings to extend
range you may save yourself a stop. Gee, if you boost the fuel burn back
to the previous level you will have increased the power - there is never too
much power for a low-drag Lancair.

Take a look at the way Unison presented its' data for a fixed pitch
prop on a carbureted C172 (I think).

http://www.unisonindustries.com/news/service_documents.html

Click on "LASAR Experience"

AVWEB wrote an article on LASAR and Part one has install info:

http://www.avweb.com/news/reviews/182489-1.html

Part two has performance info:

http://www.avweb.com/news/reviews/182490-1.html

Remember that this may be the worse performing electronic system, but with
a comfortable backup - mags.

==================

Advancing one spark may be better than none, but the flame fronts start at
different times - It is best to fire both plugs at the same time. But,
some people settle for 1/2 a system as it makes them comfortable with the
apparent risk/reward.

No Dyno test is a replacement for a flight test. Best is two planes
side by side in a race.

What's a timing sweep? Unison and E-Mag keep their timing secret,
Lightspeed has an optional display so you can monitor the timing (change it if
you dare, too).

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 03/13/2005 - 18:09

From:	Larry Henney <lhenney [at] attg.net>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	RE: [LML] Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Sun, 13 Mar 2005 13:09:37 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Alain, Please forgive my sarcastic and abrasive response to your post. I now having read your words a third time realize how I totally was off base. Somehow I misconstrued your "then, think....." and your comment about the backup alternator as some kind of innuendo negating the benefits of the all electric set up. I see now how ridiculous the tone of my response must have sounded. I'll go climb back under my rock. Larry

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 03/14/2005 - 00:36

From:	Alain NOIREAUX <alainoireaux [at] club-internet.fr>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:36:01 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Larry, as you had written my Christian name "Alan" I have thought you where writting to another person whose name was "Alan". Please don't worry,it's not a matter. I hope this will not ruin your sleep. Have nice flights. Alain NOIREAUX Larry Henney a écrit :

Alain,

Please forgive my sarcastic and abrasive response to your post. I now

having read your words a third time realize how I totally was off base.

Somehow I misconstrued your "then, think....." and your comment about

the backup alternator as some kind of innuendo negating the benefits of

the all electric set up. I see now how ridiculous the tone of my

response must have sounded. I'll go climb back under my rock.

Larry

--

For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/lml/

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 03/14/2005 - 16:04

From:	Matt Hapgood <hapgoodm94 [at] alum.darden.edu>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	RE: [LML] Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:04:52 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

I am running a non- aviation EFI
system. I'd love to see what the Lightspeed system shows for advance at
various power settings...

Anyone care to provide me with some of the
numbers you are seeing on the display?

Thanks,

Matt

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 03/14/2005 - 16:05

From:	Gary Casey <glcasey [at] adelphia.net>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:05:05 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

<<Advancing one spark may be better than none, but the flame fronts start at different times - It is best to fire both plugs at the same time. But, some people settle for 1/2 a system as it makes them comfortable with the apparent risk/reward. No Dyno test is a replacement for a flight test. Best is two planes side by side in a race. What's a timing sweep? Unison and E-Mag keep their timing secret, Lightspeed has an optional display so you can monitor the timing (change it if you dare, too). Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk>> Thanks for all the references, Scott. Lasar seems to have some reasonable data in their website and overall, the responses I get show an improvement in BSFC at altitude of between 6 and 12 percent with between 60 and 90 percent of that available with a single advancing ignition system. Unfortunately, none of the data is for LOP operation, which I would expect to result in greater improvements. I disagree that a dyno test is no substitute for flight testing - in a dyno test all other variables can be eliminated so accurate comparisons can be made. Even Unison uses static rpm as a measure of power - not very accurate compared to a balance beam on a dyno engine. A "timing sweep" typically results in a graph that shows a single variable (BSFC or power) changing as a result of ignition advance. The fuel mixture can be held at a fixed value or can be set at LBT as the ignition timing is changed. The knowledge can be derived from an accurate and thorough dyno test may not be available from a flight test although the flight test is the end result. Gary Casey

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 03/14/2005 - 16:39

From:	<Sky2high [at] aol.com>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:39:54 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

In a message dated 3/14/2005 10:08:50 A.M. Central Standard Time,
hapgoodm94 [at] alum.darden.edu writes:

I am running a non- aviation EFI
system. I'd love to see what the Lightspeed system shows for advance at
various power settings...

Anyone care to provide me with some of the
numbers you are seeing on the display?

Matt,

OK, expect to see some numbers from me in mid-April. If it
really works well, expect me to lie until after the Air Venture Cup Race.

Klaus wants those with compression ratios greater than 8.7:1 to retard
everything by 5 degrees. I have 9:1 right now, and I will have to do an
estimate after putting in the smaller automotive plugs - that may drop the
ratio.

Scott Krueger
AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL (KARR)

Fair
and Balanced Opinions at No Charge!
Metaphysical Monologues used at your own
Risk.

Electronic Ignition

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 03/15/2005 - 00:50

From:	John Huft <aflyer [at] lazy8.net>
Sender:	Marvin Kaye <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject:	Re: [LML] Re: Electronic Ignition
Date:	Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:50:30 -0500
To:	<lml [at] lancaironline.net>

Matt, I have the lead magnets set at 40, rather than 45, for my 10:1 pistons. I see 30 degrees advance at 12,500, and 25 degrees at 8,500. WOT with ram air, so about 23.5" map at 8500. John Huft Matt Hapgood wrote:

I am running a non- aviation EFI system. I'd love to see what the Lightspeed system shows for advance at various power settings...

Anyone care to provide me with some of the numbers you are seeing on the display?

Thanks,

Matt

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