Carbon vs. Glass

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From: John Cooper <heyduke [at] digital.net>
Subject: Carbon vs. Glass
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:34:40 -0400
To: <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

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Scott--



Yeah, yeah, I've heard all that before...



But what about the Young's Modulus of the spruce longerons (E=1,500,000)

vs. the Young's Modulus of the fiberglass fuselage (E=10,600,000), hmmm?

This is a much bigger ratio than between glass-epoxy and carbon fiber

(E=35,000,000). Shouldn't the "stiffer" glass-epoxy fuselage break before

the spruce longerons in the standard design?



And wouldn't the epoxy (E=2500) joining the two layers fail long before

either the glass-epoxy or the carbon fiber failed?



Yes, the worst that will happen to my plane is that cracks develop where

the epoxy holding the carbon fiber to the pre-preg fails in shear, in which

case I am back to the "standard" strength and will have to repaint my plane.

Carbon vs. Glass

From: Guy Buchanan <bnn [at] compuserve.com>
Sender: Guy Buchanan <bnn [at] compuserve.com>
Subject: Carbon vs. Glass
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 20:44:30 -0400
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John,

        Some data for your inquiry:



Material                Modulus         Comp.   Linear strain

                                        Stress  to failure



Spruce perp.            1.57 msi (flex) 5.6 ksi 0.4%

to grain



E-glass/epoxy           2.4 msi (comp)  44 ksi  1.8%

equal 0/45/90/-45



E-glass/epoxy           2.72 msi (comp) 64 ksi  2.4%

equal 0/90



Low mod carbon/epoxy    5.37 msi (comp) 34 ksi  0.6%

equal 0/45/90/-45



Low mod carbon/epoxy    7.15 msi (comp) 52 ksi  0.7%

equal 0/90



Low mod carbon/epoxy    9.97 msi (comp) 64 ksi  0.6%

70% uni



        Thus, in a pure tug the spruce will fail first,

the carbon second, and the glass last. However, when

you build a sandwich panel with a symmetric laminate,

and then add higher stiffness material to one face,

you CAN shift the neutral exis faster than you

increase the section inertia, thereby reducing the

section modulus and therefore the beam bending

strength.

        More importantly to the fastidious, the

coefficients of thermal expansion between carbon and

glass are quite different (0.02e-6 v 8.6e-6 mm/(mm-C))

meaning that temporary, and possibly permenant,

deformations will show at each modification, making

your beautiful Lancair look, ahem, shall we say, lumpy?

(Permenant deformations occur because of shrinkage,

temporary because of temperature and humidity changes.)



Food for thought,



Guy Buchanan

Buchanan & Newcomer

Carbon vs. Glass

From: John Cooper <heyduke [at] digital.net>
Subject: Carbon vs. Glass
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:17:33 -0400
To: <lancair.list [at] olsusa.com>

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Guy--



Thanks for the numbers. They were more useful than the ones I was using,

since they apparently reflected the "layed-up" condition rather than just

the strength of the fibers themselves.



I am assuming that "msi" means "million pounds per square inch", right?



Also, I just got back from the hangar where I was working on the center

console "lids". I remeasured the distance from the engine CG to the main

spar and it was 52", not 40". I reverified that the longeron-to-spar

distance was in fact 17" (to the bottom of the spar).



So the 52" dimension makes the stress in the longerons 900# per G, not 706#

as in my previous post. 450# per longeron per G...



Using your Young's Modulus numbers:



spruce=1.57mpsi

glass=2.42mpsi

carbon=9.97mpsi



the ratios normalize to 1 : 1.54 : 6.35 instead of the figures that I used

in the last post, which were 1 : 7 : 21



Recalculating using my original areas, I get:



AE(spruce) = 1 x 0.56

AE(glass) =  2.42 x 0.12 = 0.29

AE(carbon) = 9.97 x .12 = 1.20

sum of above = 2.05



So therefore the percent of load carried by each material is:



Spruce .56/2.05 = 27%

Glass .29/2.05 = 14%

Carbon 1.20/2.05 = 59%



For the original configuration (without carbon fiber):



Spruce = .56/0.85 = 66%

Glass = .29/0.85 = 34%

Carbon vs. Glass

From: Guy Buchanan <bnn [at] compuserve.com>
Sender: Guy Buchanan <bnn [at] compuserve.com>
Subject: Carbon vs. Glass
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 14:01:37 -0400
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All,

        Error in my last post. "Spruce perp. to grain" should have read

"Spruce parallel to grain."

Sorry for the confusion. Scott, your responses are on the mark, but I think

you slipped some zeros

in your epoxy modulus. I get a range closer to 500,000 psi. That would make

your epoxy stress be

only 1800 psi so your example still holds true. Also, I hope noone ever

reinforces with purely

unidirectional carbon. It has great stiffness but lousy strength.



Guy Buchanan

Buchanan & Newcomer

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