DOWNWIND ABEAM -power off

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From: PETER WILLIAMS <peterpawaviation [at] hotmail.com>
Sender: <marv [at] lancaironline.net>
Subject: DOWNWIND ABEAM -power off
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:05:30 -0400
To: <lml [at] lancaironline.net>
hi there

downwind abeam the numbers at 1,000 feet, there is no way to do a normal landing in a 4/4P; at 1.500 feet with prop as slow as you can get (2,000rpm or below) you would have a chance. the vertical speed at that setting will be 8-900 fmp. with high prop RMP figure 1,700 FMP.

if you go over the numbers in the direction of the runway at 3,000 feet and get the RPMs down low you will land on the numbers after doing a 45 degree bank, 360 turn. Not with a lot to spare.

peter

To: lml [at] lancaironline.net
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:25:49 -0400
From: bbradburry [at] bellsouth.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Flaps on take-off?

That seems a scenario where you would be
in better shape with the flaps up.  You very well might make the
runway.  With flaps down, you likely would not and it would be very
dangerous to try and retract them.  With the high wing loading that all the
Lancairs have, they are flying bricks with no power.  I think almost
nobody makes the approach to land with no power.

Remember way back in primary training when
the instructor had you remove power abeam the numbers and make the landing
without having to add power?  Does anyone practice that maneuver with
their Lancair?

 

Bill B

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [lml [at] lancaironline.net]">mailto:lml [at] lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Hannahan

Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013
6:33 AM

To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

Subject: [LML] Flaps on take-off?

 

Matt, I
agree with the others that w's insults are inexcusable, but I must ask a
question.

 

What do you do if your low over the
departure end of the runway and the engine quits?

 

1.  Land at high speed flaps up.

 

2.   Lower the flaps and deal
with the big trim and pitch change while making all the other decisions and
actions required in parallel.

 

3.   ?

 

Regards,

Bill
Hannahan



wfhannahan [at] yahoo.com

 

----- Forwarded
Message -----

From: "marv [at] lancair.net"
<marv [at] lancair.net>

To: lml <lml>

Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 4:02
PM

Subject: [LML] Re: Flaps on
take-off?

 







Posted for Matt losangeles <mattinlosangeles [at] yahoo.com>:



> I feel much safer adding 5 knots or so on the ground before I lift off so
I

>don't have to mess with trim when I am low to the ground. I could see a

>scenario where I take off IFR and I am immediately handed off to departure

>control while I am putting the flaps up. They tell me to do something the

>requires me to look at my map and the next thing you know, while
distracted,

> I am at an unusual attitude really close to the ground. When I am
down low

>like that I want to make sure if I am distracted it isn't a problem, the

>plane just keeps on climbing along at Vy or so.

>  

> I also would guess if you use flaps on take off, this adds drag and
slows

>your rate of climb (I have not tested this). I am able to be at Vy a
couple

>seconds after take off and I am going to get to a safer altitude before the


>guy using flaps (again, this is my guess since I have not tested the two

>scenarios).

>  

> Another thing. It is an experimental aircraft. As it states on the

>EAA, "There is  no FAA approved flight manual or POH
for experimental

>aircraft, nor is there a  TC". 

>  

> Ohh, what about those reno
racer Legacy aircraft that have just bonded thier

>flaps in place so they can't go down in order to eliminate the drag of the

>hindges. I guess they are not flying those aircraft the way they were meant


>to be flown. You could argue they are reno
racers I suppose. It is also

>likely they are using those planes the other 51 weeks out of the year to
fly

>all over the place and those planes don't seem to be crashing on takeoff.

>  

> "I believe everyone would agree that flaps do add a margin of
safety"

>  I personally consider myself part of everyone and I don't agree that
flaps

>do in fact add a margin of safety on take off. I use them on landing so I
can

>see out the window and out of habit I suppose. If the speed you land
at makes

>such a difference, then the best thing to be doing is flying a plane that

>lands at a slower speed.

>  

> Perhaps if we were all 100 hour pilots, blindly following the POH makes

>sense. It is funny, I remember having this EXACT same argument on a Mooney

>board. I used to take off without flaps when I had a Mooney and I heard the


>same thing there. Follow the POH explicitly or you are completely
reckless

>and should have your license taken away. At least those Mooney guys had a

>point. That was a certified aircraft with a POH that said to take off with

>flaps.

>  

> Something else to consider, if flaps are so critical to flight on our

>planes, why on earth don't they have a back up system to ensure they always


>go down when needed like our landing gear has? My guess is because the
plane

>will fly just fine without them.

>  

> Matt

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: Art Jensen <flycassutts [at] yahoo.com>

> To: lml [at] lancaironline.net

> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:46 PM

> Subject: [LML] Re: To Marv

>  

> Maybe Wolfgang was short on political correctness, but the truth remains

>that if you cannot or do not fly the plane as it was meant to be flown then


>you should not be flying that plane.

>

> I believe everyone would agree that flaps do add a margin of safety and

>should be used for take-off and landing as per your POH and I believe every


>instructor giving training in a Lancair would agree.  If an
instructor

>reading this disagrees, please share why you disagree with me.

>

> Art

>

> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad  

>

>

> ________________________________

> From:  steve
<n5276j [at] aol.com>;  To:  <lml [at] lancaironline.net>;  Subject:


> [LML] Re: To Marv  Sent:  Mon, Aug 12, 2013 5:39:28
PM    

> I second your post. I am surprised by the comment.

>

> steve alderman   N25SA  360

>

> .

> -----Original Message----- From: Claudette Colwell
<colwell.ch [at] gmail.com>

>To: lml <lml [at] lancaironline.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2013 5:43 am
Subject:

>[LML] To Marv  

> It is very regretful the comment from Wolfgang apparently directed to Matt


>appeared on the LML.  This has always been a constructive exchange of

>information and ideas.  That type of personal comment is not in
keeping with

>the spirit of cooperative sharing of information.

>  

> Claudette  

--
 
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